jimjimbo Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 Yes, all good advice, thank you. Will be packing it up this weekend I believe. Hell, I can't do anything else around here, it's too damn cold to even walk outside!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon string Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) You nailed it, the problem is the built in phono stage. Send the table back and buy a used one with out a built in phono stage. You'll get a better table for the same or less cash. With the gear you mentioned I put my money on the pioneer phono stage but I'd still recommend the emo stand alone unit for $150. I've auditioned it and it is really good. It stood up to my dynavector p-75 which is a lot more new, a lot. Don't give up on vinyl but like I said it is by far the most fickle and potential expensive dragon one can chase in the audio addiction. That said when its good, its sooooo good. and then get this external phono stage to start out with: http://schiit.com/products/mani I love the Schitt products, I have their bifrost DAC with their uber upgrade and their pys passive pre, great stuff made in the usa at a fair price. I haven't heard their phonstage however. The emo unit offers a slightly smaller footprint and equally as flexible with adjusting gain for MM and MC. It would give you 30 days to audition and I think a 5 year warranty. I'd imagine either option would be better than where Jim is at currently. Edited January 9, 2015 by Lemon string Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 Secondly, it's hard to believe there's no way to bypass the internal electronics? Well, you can, but it's not just a matter of a switch, it's a rewiring job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 Don't give up on vinyl but like I said it is by far the most fickle and potential expensive dragon one can chase in the audio addiction. That said when its good, its sooooo good. It's too late for me to give up on vinyl...I now have way too many records!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon string Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Secondly, it's hard to believe there's no way to bypass the internal electronics? Well, you can, but it's not just a matter of a switch, it's a rewiring job. yeah not a path I'd want to go down, after spending cash on a new unit, personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A1UC Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) I think my TT has way better bass than my DAC , I am still stuck between the 2 and pulling more towards vinyl . I know when I first got into vinyl I about gave up a few times , I couldnt get the table setup correct . As for the tracking force it would be safe to stay in the specs the manufacture recommends I just looked at your table and cart , if it was me " not to be rude " I d return both of them and buy a http://www.needledoctor.com/Brand-Stores/Pro-Ject-Debut-Carbon-Turntable if you have a lower budget Edited January 9, 2015 by A1UC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) I have been watching this thread seeing where the advice leads you op... I think the idea of returning the tt and investing is slightly better equipment is probably the most solid solution right now. The issue of thin sound in the lower frequency end has several root causes... or several causes in conjuction with each other compounding the issue. VTA is one cause... incorrect arm angle causes the caridge, and therefore the needle angle, to be improperly aligned. Normally a lower rear arm angle, closer to the pivot point, results in a thinner sound with high frequency bias... a lower front portion of the arm has the effect of loading more lower frequencies. This all is related to how the actual needle is contacting the grove surface. This angle is customisable and tuning it to the listener is normal. Another more appropriate cause of thin sound is poor resistance loading based on poor pre amp design and matching with the cart being used. 47k is an all around loading used by most pre amp manufacturers, when in fact no two carts are exactly the same. This standardized load resistance value causes issues like yours all the time... using an adjustable resistance preamp is a good idea. What does this all mean? It means you get what you pay for unfortunately. Edited January 9, 2015 by Schu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 Mr. A1UC and Mr. Schu - thank you very much for your advice, recommendations and tech detail. Of course you are years and years ahead of me from the perspective of experience with vinyl and TT's, and I appreciate that. Vinyl won't be my primary source, and my budget doesn't allow a huge investment in equipment, but I'm ok with that. It certainly is looking like the statement "you get what you pay for" is pretty much holding true in this niche (up to a point....). Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 Jim, Glad to hear you are not giving up on vinyl. With a bit of patience, I think you will reap some nice rewards. Vinyl is initially a bit more tedious to get working than basic digital, but once you get passed that, it will become more enjoyable. I think one reason is that it is less passive as an activity than CDs. Just mounting the album, brushing it, tightening it down (be sure to get a spindle clamp), and engaging the stylus gets the user invested in the experience. I would focus on a TT that has no gizmos to complicate the operation. A basic traditional TT without USB or preamps or any of that, using a high output MM cart. Save MC for a later upgrade after you get your feet on firm ground. With a table and car like that, you can plug it into your Pioneer and get very predictable good results. I think the Project Debut with Ortofon 2M is a great example of a terrific starter. It's $399 at Needle Doctor and gets rave reviews from reliable sources. Good luck! My thoughts exactly with regard to the "involvement" with the whole process....And yes, I am definitely looking at the Project Debut, and maybe even a Rega. Thank you for your encouragement and advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) I will +1 on the Ortofon 2M-Blue cartridge! I will also +1 on needledoctor.com. Call them and ask them for a recommendation. My purchases there were a great experience. Edited January 9, 2015 by mustang guy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Mr. A1UC and Mr. Schu - thank you very much for your advice, recommendations and tech detail. Of course you are years and years ahead of me from the perspective of experience with vinyl and TT's, and I appreciate that. Vinyl won't be my primary source, and my budget doesn't allow a huge investment in equipment, but I'm ok with that. It certainly is looking like the statement "you get what you pay for" is pretty much holding true in this niche (up to a point....). Thanks again.You know... my statement seems like a audio over generalization and cop out, unfortunately with vinyl it is especially a truism... to a point. There are diminishing returns as you spend more and more.I think that for somewhere around a thousand dollars all in, you can have a really great system that rivals most digital playback... at five hundred dollars all in, things are more problimatic because there are a lot of elements in a vinyl system that contribute to making it listenable at a level where you can say it clearly outshines digital. Table, arm, cartridge, pre amp, sut... all are important. Edited January 9, 2015 by Schu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkane Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Is the tonearm adjustable? Try running that sucker tail down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A1UC Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Something I forget to mention is that this is a REALLY handy, almost indispensable aid to setting up and testing any TT. http://www.needledoctor.com/Hi-Fi-News-Test-Record Expensive, but worth it. This has been a standard for many years. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 Thanks for this info. Although I'm wondering if most of the tests are actually going to be useful to me? I would hope that full instructions will be included? I will give it a whirl though if it's going to be worthwhile.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 You could just buy my Basis 2001 with Graham 2.2 arm and Ortofon 2M Black cartridge; this combo does not lack bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) You could just buy my Basis 2001 with Graham 2.2 arm and Ortofon 2M Black cartridge; this combo does not lack bass. I'm not even going to bother asking how much, because I think I would probably need two more jobs to afford it...... Yea, just looked it up....thanks for the offer though! Edited January 9, 2015 by jimjimbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 OK then! thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I run my TT with zero anti skate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 Yes, but you've probably been through NeedleDoctor advanced training, and have your TT sitting on a zero gravity platform.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Klipsch has been strongly endorsing their new partnership with U-Turn Audio.. it might be worth looking into as an option - they certainly seem to be affordable. http://store.uturnaudio.com/ http://www.klipsch.com/blog/u-turn-audio-orbit-basic-turntable-review/ Edited January 9, 2015 by Thaddeus Smith 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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