Ski Bum Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I asked earlier what settings to use and did not receive a response. Match levels by measuring across the speaker terminals while playing a CD with relevant test tones on it. Switch back and forth between the two signal paths and set gains until the levels match within 1% which is about the same as 0.1 dB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted March 31, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted March 31, 2015 I asked earlier what settings to use and did not receive a response. Match levels by measuring across the speaker terminals while playing a CD with relevant test tones on it. Switch back and forth between the two signal paths and set gains until the levels match within 1% which is about the same as 0.1 dB. I own a multimeter but don't use it very often. The question I was asking was what setting do I use? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I asked earlier what settings to use and did not receive a response. Match levels by measuring across the speaker terminals while playing a CD with relevant test tones on it. Switch back and forth between the two signal paths and set gains until the levels match within 1% which is about the same as 0.1 dB. I don't see the need for all these tests and measurements. We participate in this hobby as a form of enjoyment. If one amplifier gives you more pleasure than another, why does it matter if you are blind folded when you make that decision? It's not as if he's comparing a ten thousand dollar model to a 200.00 receiver. They are both very inexpensive devices, so the outcome shouldn't be a controversy. It really doesn't matter either way. You can't be swayed by a fancy faceplate or name badge in this instance. Double blind listening is fraught with problems, but I'm not gonna go too far down that road. Just enjoy what you enjoy and leave the measurements and specs to the people that get off on that type of thing. You know who you are........ Shakey 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I heard the same speakers using my VK 2100 vs one of the big McInstosh amps. My amp sounds good but, it ain't no McIntosh. There was a SQ difference. The only caveat was that we did not level match the amps. But, I have had the VK 2100 for several years and new things were slightly different. Michael, you have been at this audio stuff for sometime and trust your ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I don't see the need for all these tests and measurements. We participate in this hobby as a form of enjoyment. If one amplifier gives you more pleasure than another, why does it matter if you are blind folded when you make that decision? It's not as if he's comparing a ten thousand dollar model to a 200.00 receiver. I could not agree more. Michael, Enjoy your wider and deeper soundstage. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted March 31, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted March 31, 2015 This morning, after everyone left for school and work, I sat down for some quiet listening. To help eliminate room reflections, I set the receiver to 65dB and played a Sam Smith's "Lay Me Down". It's a very soft song, piano and vocals only. This is a different song and artist than what I played the other day. Guess what? Even at 65dB, I experienced the same wider soundstage with the Acurus vs just the HK's amp. Just for kicks, I set the receiver at -40dB and listened to the Receiver. When I added the amp, I turned it down to -50dB which was audibly a lower volume and the Acurus at -40dB still sounded better than just the Receiver at a higher volume of -30dB. I think that's all the testing I need to satisfy me that my system does indeed sound better with the HK AVR3490 + Acurus A200 vs just the HK by itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I bet if you put a quality two channel preamp in front of that Acurus, you will see an even bigger improvement. Shakey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted March 31, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted March 31, 2015 I bet if you put a quality two channel preamp in front of that Acurus, you will see an even bigger improvement. Shakey That is precisely what I'm in the process of doing. Considering a Preamp for 2ch Setup....Need Suggestions. I'm leaning towards the Rotel RC-1070 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted March 31, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted March 31, 2015 Was ready to bid $315 + shipping on this Rotel 1070 but at the last few seconds, it jumped up to $415 + shipping. I'll pass at that price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 What is your budget? Tubes or SS? Frankly I prefer passives, but we can probably find you something. Shakey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Frankly I prefer passives, An Acurus RL-11 would be a perfect match. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) Other great choices for a reasonable price that sound fantastic are DBX CX-2, DBX CX-3, Nice ones on eBay right now. Lexicon, and Yamaha C-85, CX-1000 are also great choices. All these are sub $300 and high quality components. Edited March 31, 2015 by Frzninvt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted March 31, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted March 31, 2015 What is your budget? Shooting for < $300. Tubes or SS? I've never heard any tube gear so I'm not sure which I would prefer. Frankly I prefer passives, but we can probably find you something. Passives meaning.....? An Acurus RL-11 would be a perfect match. Never head one myself. Wish it looked more modern like the Rotel 1070 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) Passives meaning.....? A passive preamp uses the voltage gain from your source(CD, DVD, universal player, etc.) instead of your preamp. The passive preamp is essentially a "pass thru". http://www.tortugaaudio.com/what-is-a-passive-preamplifier/ Bill Edited March 31, 2015 by willland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) What's most often not discussed in amps (especially the newer digital ones) in regards to the topic of soundstage is phase response. NOT to be confused with the phase response of a single channel, using one impulse mind you, or... but rather the overlay of both channels driven with a dynamic signal (ie. more inline with what we actually hear). The plot looks something similar to this: which can prove very difficult to interpret... With mobile devices and other integrated sound processors the difference between "meh" and "amazing" could be a simple tweak of the DSP inside. When discussing tube amps, transient behavior of the phase inverter is often left at the front door. Edited March 31, 2015 by Quiet_Hollow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) I don't see the need for all these tests and measurements. Double blind listening is fraught with problems Who said anything about double blind testing? That's all your projection. The measurements were simply to more closely match output of the amps in question, to rule out one of the most common causes of audible differences, that's it. Some of us take a more methodical approach than others, I guess. Some here seem to believe it's magic, e.g. that isolation footers for amps makes an audible difference. Edited March 31, 2015 by Ski Bum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Just a few notes. 1). I was weong about the original listening levels. -30 on the receiver is 74-78db at the beginning of the track (boy I was way off). Not sure where I got 92dB. Guess I should get a digital SPL meter since I can't accurately read an analog one lol 2). I did have the receiver on just Stereo. I do not care for the artificial sound of "DVS-Wide" or "DVS-Ref". Now that's a big difference! I was playing my system the other day, and I had it up to a level that was actually hurting me, and it was around 90db. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted April 2, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted April 2, 2015 The measurements were simply to more closely match output of the amps in question, to rule out one of the most common causes of audible differences, that's it. I think it's safe to say that although I did not measure at the amp terminals, it's safe to say that the volume did not contribute to the wider sound stage since I shared that I listened to the Receiver at -30 (on the receiver) and when I added the amp, I reduced the volume from -30 to -40 on the receiver and it was noticeably softer than at -30 with the receiver and it still had a wider sound stage at lower volume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 The amplifier that is presenting a larger sound stage probably doesn't test as good as the fine piece of equipment that makes you point right at the speaker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted April 2, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted April 2, 2015 Just curious why several believe the "lesser quality" Acurus is likely the "problem". What makes the HK a "fine piece of equipment" and the Acurus not? In what ways do you feel the Acurus wouldn't test as well as the HK? Trying to understand what is the logic there. From my understanding, Acurus amps have always been regarded as high quality amps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.