Moderators Youthman Posted March 29, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted March 29, 2015 I would play with amp placement. Maybe if I face it towards the rear of the cabinet..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Didn't know that...sorry... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted March 29, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted March 29, 2015 No worries, should have stated that in the original post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 OK...it seems that most old-timers SHOULD remember back WHEN there were a number of receivers/pre-amps/integrated amps, PRIMARILY those set up for QUAD (but not always the case) which also had a discrete or CD-4 demodulator...and quite a few of these had what was often called a number of "Separation" adjustments in the pre-amp section that basically went from, shall we call it...a "slight blending of the channels" (two or four, depending on settings) to a PURE channel with only the signals for THAT particular channel, with varying blends between those extremes...which allowed for room equalization by using this effect...so....yes, depending on how the pre-amp is set up, and its inherent "separation" characteristics, if definitely COULD affect the PERCEIVED soundstage presented by the signals going to the speakers...no matter how much the separation of the speakers themselves actually measures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBPK402 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I would make sure your levels are exactly the same or the louder one could make the sound stage seem larger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I have an HK 3490...............all you have to do is set the speaker DSP to WIDE and you'll get the same effect. You probably have it on STEREO and it does not give that room filling effect like the WIDE setting does. All this narrow/wide business is DSP. It's not the amp.............it's the EFFECTS added to the amp..........so they can charge you more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted March 30, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted March 30, 2015 I would make sure your levels are exactly the same If you are talking with a DB meter...I've done that. If you mean using a multimeter, I have not done that. I asked earlier what settings to use and did not receive a response. I realize louder often sounds better (especially with Klipsch) which is why the first thing I did was make sure they were the same loudness using my dB meter. I have an HK 3490...............all you have to do is set the speaker DSP to WIDE and you'll get the same effect. You probably have it on STEREO and it does not give that room filling effect like the WIDE setting does. All this narrow/wide business is DSP. It's not the amp.............it's the EFFECTS added to the amp..........so they can charge you more. Thanks Mark, I'll check to see if I'm using any DSP setting. But think about your logic. If I have the HK set to Stereo (so that it's not "wide" sounding), how would adding the Acurus "add" that DSP setting? Just doesn't seem possible to me. I could understand it if it were the other way around. Say I have the HK set to "Wide" and then when you use preouts to the Acurus, it bypasses the DSP and so adding the amp would sound less wide. But just the opposite is happening. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 You guys joke about amp placement, but what the amp sits on can affect the way it sounds. As for my take on one amp sounding better than another one, I completely concur. Two SS amps of the same power output can sound radically different. Same for tubes. Shakey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) ...what the amp sits on can affect the way it sounds... Two SS amps of the same power output can sound radically different. Shakey Radically different merely based on foundation they reside on? Edited March 30, 2015 by Schu 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Radically different merely based on foundation they reside on? No, radically different because of design. Subtle (but real) differences on footers, racks, etc. Shakey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 ty sir... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted March 30, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted March 30, 2015 You guys joke about amp placement, but what the amp sits on can affect the way it sounds. At first I thought they were being sarcastic but then I began to question whether Dean was being serious. No emoticons used if he was sarcastic. Hopefully I will have some quiet time to try some testing with it. Much harder to test in my living room since I have a spouse and 4 children. I do think it's interesting that many seem to believe there is something "wrong" due to the differences that I'm hearing between the Receiver and the Receiver + Amp. Now I'm not like ninja saying that everyone would agree that this sounds better this way....I'm just saying it does sound wider and in that respect, it sounds better to my ears. I relate it to when I had RF-3's vs RF-7's. 7's had more presence and had a much bigger sound. Granted this is due to the larger horn and larger tweeter. I'm not sure what is in the Acurus that would make the sound wider but that's what I'm hearing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Some say you need to have a blind A/B test to have conclusive results but I don't think that's necessarily the case. There is no doubt I'm hearing a difference between the AVR and AVR + Amp combo. And for me to hear a difference, that's saying something because I don't have what I would consider a "Critical Ear". I have trouble explaining what I'm hearing. People make statements about having better dynamics, warm sounding etc and all I can do is use simple terms like more detailed, better bass, wider soundstage, clearer midrange. Maybe it's because I'm just a simple guy using simple, layman's terms to express what I'm hearing. I guess I've always been like that though. Even when I preach at my church, "I put the cookies on the bottom shelf so everyone can reach them".do just that! Have your son hook stuff up and switch back and forth and see if you can pick one from the other. Would be fun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBPK402 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 You guys joke about amp placement, but what the amp sits on can affect the way it sounds. As for my take on one amp sounding better than another one, I completely concur. Two SS amps of the same power output can sound radically different. Same for tubes. Shakey I agree with that with tube amps, but I have never heard any difference with SS in regards to what it sits on or even what cables are used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 You're hearing things. Rut roh. Yeah, Music hopefully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I would make sure your levels are exactly the same If you are talking with a DB meter...I've done that. If you mean using a multimeter, I have not done that. I asked earlier what settings to use and did not receive a response. I realize louder often sounds better (especially with Klipsch) which is why the first thing I did was make sure they were the same loudness using my dB meter. I have an HK 3490...............all you have to do is set the speaker DSP to WIDE and you'll get the same effect. You probably have it on STEREO and it does not give that room filling effect like the WIDE setting does. All this narrow/wide business is DSP. It's not the amp.............it's the EFFECTS added to the amp..........so they can charge you more. Thanks Mark, I'll check to see if I'm using any DSP setting. But think about your logic. If I have the HK set to Stereo (so that it's not "wide" sounding), how would adding the Acurus "add" that DSP setting? Just doesn't seem possible to me. I could understand it if it were the other way around. Say I have the HK set to "Wide" and then when you use preouts to the Acurus, it bypasses the DSP and so adding the amp would sound less wide. But just the opposite is happening. I never tried to use just the preamp portion of the HK3490. Therefore I am not sure if the DSP is in the preamp or amp section. I would bet the preamp but I would have to try it or read the manual. That said, preamps, amps, budget equipment..............unless you really dig in and understand the electronics contained you won't know what one really has. My opinion is that a lot of equipment contains DSP of some sorts to add effects (bells and whistles) because it's cheap to do and can charge more for it. I wouldn't stress over why one piece sounds different than another. There's lots of reasons and it's normal frankly. My LK-72 tube amp smoked on Friday night and so I replaced it with the HK3490 that I had on my shelf. They sound completely different with very little in common. When I started listening to the SS HK at first I was a little annoyed that my sweet tube sound went away. By 3-4 beers and a few tweaks on the knobs.........I really didn't care very much. The HK sounds pretty good with Cornwalls. But it is different...........and I really did not like the WIDE mode just to let you know. But I did try it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted March 30, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted March 30, 2015 Just a few notes. 1). I was weong about the original listening levels. -30 on the receiver is 74-78db at the beginning of the track (boy I was way off). Not sure where I got 92dB. Guess I should get a digital SPL meter since I can't accurately read an analog one lol 2). I did have the receiver on just Stereo. I do not care for the artificial sound of "DVS-Wide" or "DVS-Ref". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted March 30, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted March 30, 2015 With the amp, the vocals are anchored to the speaker the but extend wider than the speaker. Without the amp, the sound just comes directly from the speaker. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Michael, What you are trying to say "sounds" pretty logical to me. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 but I have never heard any difference with SS in regards to what it sits on or even what cables are used. That's so sad........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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