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Interesting Discussion on Different Horns that can be use with the LaScala Bass Bin

 

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/160049-diy-la-scala-mid-upgrade-options/?p=1939593

 

 

Who can forget the Jube-Scala

 

2jubscala.jpg

 

Volti's 2in wooden horn for the LaScala and a Beyma CP-25 tweeter on top

 

LSIIFc2604.jpg

 

Oris Horn by BD Design?

 

 

 

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This one comes with it's own video

 

western electric 15A "small" SATO-Horn JBL 2420

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqhS3BA0BYQ

 

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la scala with Bass reflex , bms4590 and jabo72 horn

 

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With Electro Voice Horn

 

 

 

Klipsch LaScala qith EV horn two way yes!.jpg

 

 

Below is the Eliptrack by Fastlane Audio

 

image.jpg

 

 

Altec 511 Horns have some appeal, but lots of complaints about "ringing" this fellow took a novel approach and build boxes around the unit and filled them with sand, according to the author it had very good effect.

 

Cut Sheet

 

Others have tried all kinds of damping materials inc automotive undercoating.

 

Link is to sandbox pic

http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=11430

 

Below is 511b in LaScala

 

Lasca511.jpg

Altec 811 & 511 Horns.pdf

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Thanks Chris A for this link, discussion on the LaScala Bass Horn Geometry and effect.

 

Can extrapolate into time alignment, someone smarter than me can......... anyway.

 

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/94238-la-scala-bass-horn-length/

 

"

The La Scala and Belle bass bins are about 36 inches (EDITED) path length from compression slot to the front face of the cabinet, effectively. 

 

Also note that any passive or active crossover will insert from 90-360 degrees of phase lag of the lower frequency driver relative to the higher frequency driver (90 degrees per "order" of the filter used: for a fourth order filter, that's 360 degrees lag of the LF driver relative to the HF driver). 

 

My working rule of thumb is that the time alignment needs to be within 1/10th of a wavelength (i.e., 36 degrees) of perfectly aligned at the center crossover frequency.  For 400 Hz crossover (bass bin to midrange), that's about 3.4 inches maximum misalignment--including crossover phase shift error.  For the tweeter-midrange crossover, nominally at 5 kHz, that's about a quarter of an inch, max misalignment, including crossover filter phase shifts.

 

Chris"

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Interesting discussions on Klipsch K-33 Woofer with specs

 

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/176729-klipsch-horn-woofer-designs.html

 

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/148475-k-33-e-vs-k-33-b-specs-anybody-have-factory-measured-ts-data/page-2

 

http://forum.poisonnuke.de/index.php?action=ViewThread&TID=2343

 

Links to DIY Plans for LaScala and some bass talk

 

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/1344-lascala-plans.html

 

http://www.audiofanatic.it/Piani_costruttivi/pic_piani/LaScala/LaScala.html

 

Scroll down to Marvel's post and his Drawing of the LaScala plans  A+

 

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/151099-scala-bass-bin-with-curved-sides/

 

UPDATE: I forgot to mention upgrading to the Klipsch K-43 Woofer, which apparently specs out better than the stock K-33

 

Actually just google Klipsch LaScala Plans and all kinds of good stuff pops up

 

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/156919-la-scala-build/

 

Scroll down for bass port to Frodi post links

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/41648-more-bass-lascalas-2.html

 

Volti Opinion on Crites K-33 replacement

http://www.klipschupgrades.com/criteswoofers.shtml

 

Not exactly stock but interesting from above la scala build thread on klipsch community above.

 

The HornResp program is where things like probably take life

 

LaScala with a real brace.jpg

 

 

Thread on building the Mod below

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/108425-la-scala-bass-reflex-mod/

 

bass_ext.jpg

 

LS_qtmahogany_1024_sm.jpg

Edited by Bubo
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Interesting LaScala hybrid build, I love all of the plots on the Bass Cabinet.

 

It's interesting that he found no real improvement in measured lower frequencies from the vent box but felt that it tightened the bass up a bit, which was a subjective observation.

 

Clearly the guy is a skilled wood worker, I would run out of fingers way before the completion of the project.

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Horns I can't find on LaScalas

 

 

Auto Tech makes these, don't know anything about them.

 

Puola%20horn4.jpg

 

DIY 'Sound Group sells these SEOS and IWATA and Auto Tech

 

Waveguide_group.jpg

 

Auto Tech Iwata Horn 2 variations, I have seen this mounted on A-7 Bins

 

Link to A-7 Pic

 

 

 

 

HT_PIC_02.jpg

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The following pre printing of a Paul Klipsch presentation is as close as I have seen to the Engineer's Design Goals as we are likely to get on the LaScala.

 

 

Like so many good things, Moray surfaced this article on a different thread.

 

I doubt if Klipsch gave everything away in an industry paper, but enough to make it interesting, and help sales.

 

I assume the Industry Theater Speaker he is comparing to is the Altec A-7 2-Way, drivers unknown at this minute.

 

Does a 2 in driver in a 2-way speaker extend the highs in a flatter response than the A-7 high end did? Or the Altec 802- pick your letter D G etc.....

 

There is also the question of which Altec Horn Klipsch was comparing to, 811, 511 or something else, but ringing is a common complaint with these two.

 

Then there is the question of which horn sounds the most lifelike with female voice, the K-55V is so sweet it sets a high mark for comparison.

LaScala AES Pre-print.pdf

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I am using an Altec 511B and I am aware of the ringing some talk about and I have dampened mine but I do not believe it is a problem at normal volume levels. When mine was not dampened I really never heard any so called ringing. If you get close to the horn and cough loud you could actually hear it ring but after dampening them it does not do it now. It is a very good horn and for the money you can buy them for they are a deal. It will take a little ingenuity to make their appearance acceptable for the wife.  From everything I read on this forum and other sources bigger horns sound better. I wish I had the big horn on the first picture. I would never make my woofer bin a tuned port system, being a horn is what I like about the sound. To each his own and I do not have anything against one doing so if that is what they want to do. I would rather get a good sub instead. With the right amplifier the bass is very acceptable to me without my having to use my sub.

 

The Big Altec Horns do have sex appeal.

 

Which Horn Diver are you running, crossover point, and how did you damp it?

 

Did you keep it 3 way or go 2 way?

 

Any pics?

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Just replaced the K-55V one piece phase plug, with the K-55V two piece phase plug that I purchased.

 

Using Hooverphonic feat Noemie Wolfs as my test CD, the difference was easy to hear.

 

More Noemie, a little louder, a little clearer.

 

After I listened, I looked at the Plots that Bob Crites posted, which are listed on the first page above.

 

What I heard conforms with the graphs.

 

The wheels do make this a lot easier.

 

TEST: Run with one of each driver

* Both speakers active mono......hard to say

* Both speakers active stereo, hard to say

 

* Both speakers active mono, using the balance control to go Full L then Full R

the difference was obvious immediately.

I checked to see if the gain controls on the amp were off, they weren't.

 

Update: I didn't look hard enough (glasses) the L gain on the amp was slightly higher, sadly I noticed this after replacing the second driver and don't have the time to switch back today. To my ear it still sounds better, clearer,  and worth the trouble.

 

I don't know how much of the audible qualitative improvement is Psycho-Acoustics were louder always sounds better......but more sweet sounding Noemie is always a good thing.

 

If I had the gear, the time and the knowledge, and software, I am certain that I could confirm the frequency response curves that Crites plotted for us...........

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Do I understand you correctly that you prefer the spring terminal K55V's?  or do I have that backwards?

 

The K55V 2 piece phase plug is the soldered terminals. Atlas

 

The  K55V 1 piece is the spring loaded terminals. EV

 

I like the 2 better, which is what I just installed in one speaker, and as soon as I finish this post I am installing the second 2 Piece Atlas into my other LaScala.

 

If I had to put a number on it, this is in the 2-5% improvement level. And still "factory"

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Do I understand you correctly that you prefer the spring terminal K55V's?  or do I have that backwards?

 

The K55V 2 piece phase plug is the soldered terminals. Atlas

 

The  K55V 1 piece is the spring loaded terminals. EV

 

I like the 2 better, which is what I just installed in one speaker, and as soon as I finish this post I am installing the second 2 Piece Atlas into my other LaScala.

 

If I had to put a number on it, this is in the 2-5% improvement level. And still "factory"

 

Gotcha, thanks.

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May be I can post a picture of mine here. La scala bass bin 90 degree rotated to damp the side panel vibration by its own weight without using braces. Mid horn replaced by Azura 300hz Le Cleac'h flare and placed right on ear level, with K55v double phase plug version, tweeter replaced by B&C DE120 on $8 PRV tractrix horn from Parts Express.

Gave up the orignal AL-3 network and I diy a Type A crossove using russian paper in oil k75-10 capacitors.

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Originally I built the network using Obbligato Oil film cap. I thought they are very nice too! Both are a HUGE step ahead from the AL-3 network which sounds so dry and harsh.

All hook up wires are solid core pure silver in teflon tubes. High purity silver (avoid silver plated copper) does not sound bright or harsh, on the contrary, there is a great sense of wetness and calmness in sound.

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May be I can post a picture of mine here. La scala bass bin 90 degree rotated to damp the side panel vibration by its own weight without using braces. Mid horn replaced by Azura 300hz Le Cleac'h flare and placed right on ear level, with K55v double phase plug version, tweeter replaced by B&C DE120 on $8 PRV tractrix horn from Parts Express.

Gave up the orignal AL-3 network and I diy a Type A crossove using russian paper in oil k75-10 capacitors.

 

Nice set up! Those mid-horns are really something else.

 

Mark

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