I respectfully request

[CECAA850]

Fascinating subject and opinions.  Thanks for keeping it civil all.

[Chad]

Fascinating subject and opinions.  Thanks for keeping it civil all.

 

Ditto.

[Jim Naseum]

Joe,

You are switching terms as fast as some people change clothes. Looking for "gun reform" isn't the same as "taking our guns away."

I argued a very clear position: the government is not trying to take our guns away. But you are arguing that because there is a minority of congress who is interested in gun reform, that it's the same thing. No, it is not. Gun reform, might be something like better back ground checks. Not taking away your guns. And, 200 congressmen are not "the government."

Exaggeration is the most common disruption in the discussion at large.

Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk

[Bella]

 

 

From a historical perspective, history doesn't really side with the argument that Madison believed that the 2nd Amendment was put in place to protect individuals from the tyranny of state or local government. Neither did the other founders.

And yet, for all of their thoughts on paper, which I do not discount lightly, they wrote the Declaration of Independence which includes this famous passage:

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

And signed by a number of the founders.

I'm interested in hearing thoughts on how they could support such a passage, fight a war against the nation that inspired the passage (with muskets), Write and pass an Amendment supporting "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms..." only to have future generations hold that perhaps they never meant to "put in place [the 2nd amendment] to protect individuals from the tyranny of state or local government."

There are books and law review articles on this issue. Read the majority opinion in Heller and the dissent is you are sincerely interested.

After that look read up on Shay's Rebellion and the Whiskey Rebellion. Madison and GW were not too sympathetic towards armed uprisings against their new govt.

It is pretty clear in Heller that there is an individual right of self-defense. You just don't get machine guns, even if they have tanks and bombers.

If they have a warrant you may not have a right to self-defense. How come no one crys out for the 4th Amendment?

 

I have a very busy schedule these days and my downtime (all 1/2 hour or so) is usually spent unwinding. As much as I'd like to (and did like to), I just cannot muster the energy. Therefore, I'm more interested in the thoughts of people who I can interact and share opinion and questions. Still not sure this is the place to do it in light of the some comments on another thread - surprised actually that the offender wasn't banned (as I see a post from him/her this morning), but I digress. And, I don't think Thomas or Scalia or any of the Supremes would take my calls. Easier to pop in and out of here between meetings or whatever when I have a moment.

 

 

I just realized my comment could be construed that I am lazy and I want to be spoon-fed answers. This isn't the case. I don't want answers so much as I am looking for a healthy exchange. I'm no there to change opinions nor do I seek to change opinions. 

Edited October 8, 2015 by Bella

[CECAA850]

surprised actually that the offender wasn't banned

 

Depending on who you're referring to, there was a ban.

[Bella]

 

surprised actually that the offender wasn't banned

 

Depending on who you're referring to, there was a ban.

 

 

2 aggressors spanning multiple threads but only 1 ban? It is a rhetorical question. I'm just working out in my head the machinitions so that I have an understanding of how the TOS is applied.

[CECAA850]

I'm just working out in my head the machinitions so that I have an understanding of how the TOS is applied.

 

The ban wasn't determined solely by what was written on the open forum.

[Paducah Home Theater]

it makes me feel better knowing I can load a 38 and have it within my wifes reach when I am outta town.

.38 stubnoses... the longest and hardest trigger pull, most uncontrollable recoil, shortest sight radius, lowest capacity, and otherwise hardest to shoot normal sized pistol available. And we give them to our women, who typically never practice, thinking they are somehow most appropriate. At least they often come with pink grips.

Edited October 8, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[joessportster]

Joe,

You are switching terms as fast as some people change clothes. Looking for "gun reform" isn't the same as "taking our guns away."

I argued a very clear position: the government is not trying to take our guns away. But you are arguing that because there is a minority of congress who is interested in gun reform, that it's the same thing. No, it is not. Gun reform, might be something like better back ground checks. Not taking away your guns. And, 200 congressmen are not "the government."

Exaggeration is the most common disruption in the discussion at large.

Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk

Not switching anything one (gun control) leads to the other (gon seizure) unless you are blind or delusional .....................Name one thing the federal government has stuck its nose in that is better and that they will leave well enough alone ??

 

No 200 congressmen are not the government but they are also not a small insignificant threat to our rights, taking a look at the tally tells me there is a 55 or 60 vote swing and the outcome could be very different, they say they want reform then the president goes out and makes statements like "we need to be more like Australia and the UK"

 

I get the distinct impression you enjoy the debate not because you care one way or the other but because you enjoy the banter and poking the stick in an attempt to get a rise......................From what I can see you have drawn no line in the sand. I live in a completely different way I dont believe in the gray area's I choose a side and reside there 

[joessportster]

 

it makes me feel better knowing I can load a 38 and have it within my wifes reach when I am outta town.

.38 stubnoses... the longest and hardest trigger pull, most uncontrollable recoil, shortest sight radius, lowest capacity, and otherwise hardest to shoot normal sized pistol available. And we give them to our women, who typically never practice, thinking they are somehow most appropriate. At least they often come with pink grips.

 

Not mine, its a retired NYC police issue with wooden grips stainless Smith & Wesson, it is for close quarters if someone wanted to breach the locked door,  And I have shown the wife how to shoot, as well as it is a dual action trigger so cock it with the thumb and it is a breeze (I like the reliability of the revolver as well)

[Paducah Home Theater]

Not mine, its a retired NYC police issue with wooden grips stainless Smith & Wesson, it is for close quarters if someone wanted to breach the locked door,  And I have shown the wife how to shoot, as well as it is a dual action trigger so cock it with the thumb and it is a breeze (I like the reliability of the revolver as well)

I'm a fan of 20 gauge pumps for women in home defense situations, especially smaller youth models. Highly overlooked. Take the plug out and you have a very effective, reliable, and simple home defense gun that is very easy to be proficient at. The knock-down and stopping power is way higher than a standard pistol yet it is way more controllable especially for occasional shooters both in terms of recoil and hitting your target the first time.

Next choice, probably Glock 34. I've yet to see a Glock have reliability issues. I have had one stovepipe while testing modified mags where an aftermarket baseplate didn't fit the new gen 4 mags and that's it.

[Jim Naseum]

 

Joe,

You are switching terms as fast as some people change clothes. Looking for "gun reform" isn't the same as "taking our guns away."

I argued a very clear position: the government is not trying to take our guns away. But you are arguing that because there is a minority of congress who is interested in gun reform, that it's the same thing. No, it is not. Gun reform, might be something like better back ground checks. Not taking away your guns. And, 200 congressmen are not "the government."

Exaggeration is the most common disruption in the discussion at large.

Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk

Not switching anything one (gun control) leads to the other (gon seizure) unless you are blind or delusional .....................Name one thing the federal government has stuck its nose in that is better and that they will leave well enough alone ??

 

No 200 congressmen are not the government but they are also not a small insignificant threat to our rights, taking a look at the tally tells me there is a 55 or 60 vote swing and the outcome could be very different, they say they want reform then the president goes out and makes statements like "we need to be more like Australia and the UK"

 

I get the distinct impression you enjoy the debate not because you care one way or the other but because you enjoy the banter and poking the stick in an attempt to get a rise......................From what I can see you have drawn no line in the sand. I live in a completely different way I dont believe in the gray area's I choose a side and reside there 

 

 

Joe, I'm not "blind or delusional."  Sorry, I'm not interested in the least bit in these personally directed exchanges. 

[joessportster]

 

Not mine, its a retired NYC police issue with wooden grips stainless Smith & Wesson, it is for close quarters if someone wanted to breach the locked door,  And I have shown the wife how to shoot, as well as it is a dual action trigger so cock it with the thumb and it is a breeze (I like the reliability of the revolver as well)

I'm a fan of 20 gauge pumps for women in home defense situations, especially smaller youth models. Highly overlooked. Take the plug out and you have a very effective, reliable, and simple home defense gun that is very easy to be proficient at. The knock-down and stopping power is way higher than a standard pistol yet it is way more controllable especially for occasional shooters both in terms of recoil and hitting your target the first time.

Next choice, probably Glock 34. I've yet to see a Glock have reliability issues. I have had one stovepipe while testing modified mags where an aftermarket baseplate didn't fit the new gen 4 mags and that's it.

 

I have a 12 Remington 870,  The wife has some not so fond memories from childhood of firing a 12 gauge shotgun, not sure I could get her on board with any shotgun but I certainly agree a pump shotty is one of the best home defense guns ..................I never really thought about getting a 20 maybe I can get a cheapo and try her out on it

[Taz]

I can't speak for everybody in my community.  However those I have spoke to, both men and women wish The president would not come to town tomorrow.  We don't need him using our community's Tragedy for his Political Agenda.

 

Local news rag says there is to be peaceful protests regarding his invasion of our community.  And that firearms are optional.

[joessportster]

Actually it is pretty poor form on his part IMHO, I would bet he would find gauging someone on price  that just went through some tragedy (storm, flood etc...) a poo practice and he would be quick to warn us that it is illegal, I know I heard him speak on price gauging with gas before

 

I am sure he does not equate his actions with the same poor form..........................Taking advantage of others mis fortune for gain politically is IMHO the height of poor form

 

showing up with firearms would make his security happy I am sure 

[Travis In Austin]

Those under the delusion that there are so few in congress against gun control heres the tally screen shot on the last bill that failed, much closer than some are trying to have us believe, Again "THEY" are the 202 supporters in the screen shot

klipsch guns.PNG

Which bill? The one after Sandy Hook? If that is the one I can post the bill and we can talk about what they were trying to do. I can also link all of the cspan hearings and the vote. If it is a state bill you are referring to, less luck on that.

[Travis In Austin]

I can't speak for everybody in my community. However those I have spoke to, both men and women wish The president would not come to town tomorrow. We don't need him using our community's Tragedy for his Political Agenda.

Local news rag says there is to be peaceful protests regarding his invasion of our community. And that firearms are optional.

What? Why? Is he going to take away guns while he is there?

Is your sheriff going to refuse to meet with him?

They don't have to meet with him if they don't want to and there is always a peaceful protest where ANY president travels, they set up areas for it. People can complain about whatever they want to.

[Travis In Austin]

Actually it is pretty poor form on his part IMHO, I would bet he would find gauging someone on price that just went through some tragedy (storm, flood etc...) a poo practice and he would be quick to warn us that it is illegal, I know I heard him speak on price gauging with gas before

I am sure he does not equate his actions with the same poor form..........................Taking advantage of others mis fortune for gain politically is IMHO the height of poor form

showing up with firearms would make his security happy I am sure

Well he had many previous examples to follow, whether it is bad form or not:

THE PRESIDENT: Governor, thank you. President Steger, thank you very much. Students, and faculty, and staff, and grieving family members, and members of this really extraordinary place.

Laura and I have come to Blacksburg today with hearts full of sorrow. This is a day of mourning for the Virginia Tech community -- and it is a day of sadness for our entire nation. We've come to express our sympathy. In this time of anguish, I hope you know that people all over this country are thinking about you, and asking God to provide comfort for all who have been affected.

[Paducah Home Theater]

I never really thought about getting a 20 maybe I can get a cheapo and try her out on it

 

 

Recoil is way easier than a 12.  I have a big MGM spinner target, it's all I can do to make it spin with a 40 caliber at any decent distance, you have to time it just right and then hit it with accuracy, it's actually really hard.  20 gauge pump, not an issue at all, almost shocking how much harder it smacks that target as well as how much easier it is to hit.  They should be way more popular.  

[Travis In Austin]

Iwas interested to see how big the commotion was over the visit and went to the Oregonian to see what they were reporting.

"Furor over the president's visit led the Roseburg City Council to issue a statement saying city officials will welcome Obama and "extend him every courtesy."

Council President Tom Ryan said in an interview Tuesday that the statement – which referred to "misrepresentations" made by some people – was aimed at Jacques, who claimed to have the support of community leaders.

If Obama "can help heal some families, more power to him," said Ryan, who also expressed concerns about what the president might say during his visit."

The sheriff is reported as saying he doesn't want him there.