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TheSeanis

Did I just blow my Tweeters on my KG4's?

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you probably need to get a larger set of loudspeakers which can play a lot louder then you won't need to worry. If I were you I would get my amplifier checked to make sure that the problem was not there. No the Crites tweeter will not fare any better than the stock ones. Try a set of KG 5.5 or KLF20 or KLF30 or CF3or4 or get a set of LaScala and you can use them to remove old layers of wall paper and paint from your walls.

   You can also check to see if your poly switches have been removed or bypassed on your KG4 networks it looks like a thick flat disk ceramic cap but it is not a cap. I usually recommend that people remove them but in your case that is probably not a plan. It would seem that your turn on pop was the problem but you need to sort that out no matter what speakers you have. If you don't find the cause it will probably happen again and you don't want that. Good luck.

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Maybe you should check the amp for damage also.  Open her up and look for burnt marks or something else awry.  DC could have shot back into your speakers.

 

Bill

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I've read where putting an in line light bulb will protect the tweeters as well.  It would have to go between the crossover and the tweeter.  If I can find the details, I'll post them.

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Anything higher and you are asking for trouble. After the 50% mark the THD starts to kick in and that is where problems come into play.

 

 

Do you happen to know if the crites replacements are built a little more robust? I just don't like the idea of constantly worrying I'm going to fry the tweeters.

 

You are still concerned about the tweeters as if they were the problem.  The tweeters blowing was likely the result of the problem. 

 

I've been on this board for about 3 years and this is the first I've heard of anyone blowing KG tweeters although I'm sure that happens.  Granted the KG's are not a current model, but there are plenty of them out there and this is the first post I can remember of anyone asking for help with blown KG tweeters. 

 

I would be more concerned about how your vintage preamp and amp handle transients because that is more likely the cause of the problem.  Vintage gear needs upgrading and older caps replaced to keep them within spec.  If you like older gear (and a LOT of people here do) then maintenance is just part of the cost of doing business.

 

You are right to be concerned about the true problem and trying to find the answer so this expensive problem doesn't happen again. 

Edited by wvu80
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I've read where putting an in line light bulb will protect the tweeters as well.  It would have to go between the crossover and the tweeter.  If I can find the details, I'll post them.

 

I did that to my KLF-20's after I blew both tweeters in em'. Just an automotive 1156 tail light bulb on the negative lead.

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When you start to hear the strain in the sound turn it down.

 

Last time i blew out a tweet was in an old pair of Jensen 2 ways, and then i did it again.

 

Luckily it was still under warranty.

 

Try fleabay if you want a factory tweet or Bob may sell new diaphragms.

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Anything higher and you are asking for trouble. After the 50% mark the THD starts to kick in and that is where problems come into play.

 

 

Do you happen to know if the crites replacements are built a little more robust? I just don't like the idea of constantly worrying I'm going to fry the tweeters.

 

You are still concerned about the tweeters as if they were the problem.  The tweeters blowing was likely the result of the problem. 

 

I've been on this board for about 3 years and this is the first I've heard of anyone blowing KG tweeters although I'm sure that happens.  Granted the KG's are not a current model, but there are plenty of them out there and this is the first post I can remember of anyone asking for help with blown KG tweeters. 

 

I would be more concerned about how your vintage preamp and amp handle transients because that is more likely the cause of the problem.  Vintage gear needs upgrading and older caps replaced to keep them within spec.  If you like older gear (and a LOT of people here do) then maintenance is just part of the cost of doing business.

 

You are right to be concerned about the true problem and trying to find the answer so this expensive problem doesn't happen again. 

 

Part of that comes from me not fully grasping the situation, but I'm trying. At first people were suggesting the amp went into clipping and I did not understand how that was possible since the amp wasn't anywhere near max volume and was only near halfway. It does make sense that 50% volume != 50% amp power but as far as I know (and I could be completely wrong) the amp is only driven to clipping when the drawing power from the speakers is exceeding what the amp can put out. At that point, my only assumption I could make was that the tweeters could not handle the power, and I don't really know. The specs on the KG4 say it can handle 100w continuous power (does continues = RMS?) in any regard, it made sense to me that maybe I had driven them too hard. Some people in here had said that they had blown their tweeters on less power.

Please bear with me while I try to make sense of this stuff, it is very new to me. I'm having a lot of fun experimenting but sadly the cost will be a new set of tweeters. Now, this amp I know probably isn't considered high fidelity (or is it?) and I didn't want to invest too much into it because at the time, it seemed reliable. I received it as a gift from a friend, who's grandfather bought it brand new back in the day. I realize that most kenwood components are cheap and unforgiving but I know this man very well and although he doesn't have the audiophile ear he is generally a very discerning purchaser. Knowing him, and I may be wrong as I can't find much literature on it, he usually buys top of the line stuff. Although it may not be top of the line compared to better brands of it's era it was probably the top of the line kenwood. I know, I know, it could simply mean it's the lord of the dipshits, so to speak, but I possibly erroneously assumed that even though it might be bad or perhaps just decent that IF it was the top of the line Kenwood from its time it still may have been dependable or reliable. Especially considering it's condition, which is quite nice. He took good care of his stuff.

You are right, though, it probably does need to be gone through. I guess a good question to ask at this point is: Is it worth it to work on this Kenwood amp? I have a much more highly respected amp in my posession right now that I'm working on and hopefully with some luck and elbow grease will be up to snuff soon: The Tandberg TR 2080 which is a considerably nicer and albeit expensive amplifier. My concern has shifted, I really, really do not want to damage the Tandberg or drive it into clipping. It is not mine to disrespect or destroy at this time. Maybe another question worth asking is what is is a good amp or good qualities of an amp to drive these speakers at high SPL's. Maybe I'm asking too much of these speakers.

I have a lot of questions and a lot of learning to do and I really appreciate you guys taking the time to help me out so far. You guys are tremendous, thank you!

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Just a thought. Have you checked your speaker's internal wires going to your tweeters? I am pretty sure this is not the problem but I have had the crossover wires fall off the speaker posts internally due to loud thumping music. This too will result in no sound coming from your tweeters.

Edited by teaman

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Just a thought. Have you checked your speaker's internal wires going to your tweeters? I am pretty sure this is not the problem but I have had the crossover wires fall off the speaker posts internally due to loud thumping music. This too will result in no sound coming from your tweeters.

I had not checked there. I ordered some replacement diaphragms just to be sure so when I get in there and take a look at the tweeters I will definitely have a look-see. Thank you for the suggestion!

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Maybe you should check the amp for damage also.  Open her up and look for burnt marks or something else awry.  DC could have shot back into your speakers.

 

Bill

Good idea, I will do that. I've already got another amp apart at the moment but my weekend is now looking to consist of a few stout beers whilst getting my audio gear up to snuff!

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Just having the volume control at half does not mean the amp is limited to half power.  So it is quite possible you were pumping a lot of power into the speaker.

 

Looking at the treble unit, I doubt it can take more than 5 or 10 watts long term regardless of what any spec says.    

 

There is really no way that a replacement unit is going to take more power.  The overall design issue is that the voice coil windings (plus the former and diaphragm) have to light in mass to reproduce high frequencies. Thick wires in the voice coil get in the way of that.  OTOH, the very big mid drivers with a 2 inch exit do have more robust, thicker, windings.  But only the most advanced go up to treble freqs. 

 

Overall, the best solution is to keep the level reasonable. 

 

WMcD

Edited by WMcD

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I've read where putting an in line light bulb will protect the tweeters as well.  It would have to go between the crossover and the tweeter.  If I can find the details, I'll post them.

The bulb would be acting as a resistor. It would attenuate the tweeter down.  If he did that, he should change the tap on the transformer. Would this be a quick blow low voltage bulb or something?

 

We need to introduce him to the K-402 horn.

 

HAHA, I do like the LaScala wallpaper peeler mentioned last page though.  :)

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SIGN ME UP!!

 

I think you are going to fit in here just fine.  B)

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Hi TheSeanis,

I'm not an expert, but I don't think you blew your tweeters because of the listening volume. I believe it was the "pop" sound you heard as a result of the incorrect shut down sequence. Your amplifier/receiver also likely needs to be serviced, which may or may not have contributed to the severity of the "pop" noise.

I have a little home recording studio with amplification provided by an old Bryston 3B amp. The monitors are Yamaha NS10 Studios and I'm using the M-Audio Profire 2626 interface as the preamp. It requires the same turn on, shut down procedure. On: Turn on Preamp (then computer, in my case), then Amplifier. Shutdown: Turn off Amplifier (turn off computer), then turn off Preamp.

 

My son's friend, who thought he knew what he was doing, didn't follow the sequence and blew the left channel tweeter. The same "pop" sound resulted. The NS10 tweeters are known to blow easily. A lot of people recommend installing a fuse, some say it changes the sound of the tweeter, but helps with expensive tweeter replacements.

It is obviously, still possible that your tweeters can blow as a result of distortion produced by an overdriven amplifier, but I would suggest that in this case it sounds like it was your shut down sequence. 

 

I have since, made labels with the proper "turn on" and "shut down" procedure. Especially since my sons now use the studio more than I do.

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Welcome Mr. Not Fragile, nice first post!  :emotion-19::emotion-21::smile:

 

Good advice on the startup/shutdown sequence.  I respectfully add to that list, turn the volume all the way down before starting up and before shutting down.

 

My Onk 717 has volume soft on/soft off, user defined volume pre-sets for each component during power on sequence, a user defined volume limiter, and automatic shutdown after 20 minutes of non-use. 

 

That is why I like modern AVR's as they have a lot more built-in safety technology than the vintage stuff.  It protects me from myself.  B)

Edited by wvu80
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Thank you for the kind words, wvu80!  :)

 

And good on you, for picking up an important part of the sequence, that I left out.

 

I have a tube preamp and tube amplifier in my main system. The preamp has a volume knob and an input selector knob, that's it.  I have become so accustomed to turning down the volume prior to shut down that it has become second nature, I don't even think about it anymore.

 

That's my excuse for leaving that step out...and I'm sticking to it!  :lol:

 

Cheers!

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Alright, well... Here's the weekend update. 

Crites replacements were installed. I made sure the power on and shutdown sequence was respected when testing and the audio is still muffled. So I guess there's two things left: Either the amplifier took some damage or the caps in the speaker took some damage or both I guess. I do not trust this amplifier now and will be using a vintage pioneer amp until the old Tandberg is resurrected. 

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