Thrasher Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Mr. Thrasher, have you taken everything back to ground zero? I can certainly see you have made numerous changes, all without success of restoring the bass. I suggest you unplug everything. Every wire, every speaker, sub, everything. Then plug in the 30's only. Run your speakers using the STEREO mode. If that doesn't work, please provide pictures of where things are plugged into the AVR, and pictures of the back of the speakers with the wiring. My thinking is the speakers are OK and there is a physical problem with the way the wires are attached. Second theory is that there is a problem with the electronic setup. I believe the missing bass can be found. Up until about a week ago, I had taken it down to its dumbed down function of mains only. After moving I figured I'd hook everything up in an attempt to go at it again. Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 21 minutes ago, Thrasher said: They worked flawlessly when I demod them. Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk and you said on your emo and denon they have no bass? how did you demo them? what gear? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Are you using the same wires in the same holes? Did you test the speakers using the tuner? (ie, bypassing any RCA connections) The back of my 7.2 AVR is ridiculously complicated when you consider the bi-amp option. I once plugged my speaker wires for L/R into the surround outputs because I was trying to read the back while upside down and backwards in poor lighting, because I was too lazy to pull the AVR out and use a flashlight to properly read the labels. It took me a long time to figure out my own mistake. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 15 minutes ago, Scrappydue said: and you said on your emo and denon they have no bass? how did you demo them? what gear? I can see where Scrappy is going with this, and we are on the same page. We have to find the last successful known setup and build up from there. I keep a $34 15 wpc mini-amp just for that reason, just for testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrasher Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 I can see where Scrappy is going with this, and we are on the same page. We have the last successful known setup and build up from there. I keep a $34 15 wpc mini-amp just for that reason, just for testing.The only system I've heard these on that was amazing were the initial demo session with an older Rotel which was bi amoed. Since bringing them home and trying them on a Rotel, Denon and now Emotiva, none of them are impressive in the least. Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 why don't you send your networks to Bob Crites. Bob will re build them (if they have not been done they are long past due) for you and he will test them so you can re install a perfectly working set of networks and be done with this. KLF30 are truly fantastic loudspeakers so why not start enjoying them? If you don't already have the ti tweeter diaphragms sells buy a pair now. Worth every penny. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 5 minutes ago, Thrasher said: The only system I've heard these on that was amazing were the initial demo session with an older Rotel which was bi amped. Since bringing them home and trying them on a Rotel, Denon and now Emotiva, none of them are impressive in the least. I hear what you are saying. There should have been nothing unique in the Rotel that would have made them sound extra great, and likewise, your own equipment is good stuff that should not have shut down the bass. I would question if the bi-amp connectors/wires on the speakers are connected correctly but you said you tried a couple using both the tabs and wires to connect the HF and LF sections. The only reason I would even suspect that might be a problem at this point is because you can't afford to assume it is not the problem. That's why I wanted to see a picture of the connection. It's hard to see your own mistakes. I have many personal examples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrasher Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 https://community.klipsch.com/uploads/monthly_05_2015/post-59853-0-19220000-1431021259.jpg https://community.klipsch.com/uploads/monthly_05_2015/post-12390-0-89740000-1431036779.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teaman Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 Wow, that set up looks like a bunch of extra work for nothing. I would suggest running a single wire from your positive and negative terminals on the amp to a single positive and negative terminal on the speaker. Then run a jumper about three inches long from the high frequency positive to the low frequency positive (+ to +) and a jumper about the same length from the high frequency negative to the low frequency negative (- to -). Your bi-amping is not really biamping, it is simply split wiring. Bi-amping would be if you ran one channel to the high frequency and one channel to the low frequency. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrasher Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Wow, that set up looks like a bunch of extra work for nothing. I would suggest running a single wire from your positive and negative terminals on the amp to a single positive and negative terminal on the speaker. Then run a jumper about three inches long from the high frequency positive to the low frequency positive (+ to +) and a jumper about the same length from the high frequency negative to the low frequency negative (- to -). Your bi-amping is not really biamping, it is simply split wiring. Bi-amping would be if you ran one channel to the high frequency and one channel to the low frequency.I'm not running them bi amped. Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teaman Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 I realize you are not biamping but you said the seller was, correct? In your case the extra wires are only opening up more potential for not making proper contact with terminals or cross overs somewhere. I would do a simple red to positive from positive out on your amp and black to negative from your negative out on your amp. Then run a small black jumper from the high frequency negative to the low frequency negative....and a small red jumper from from the high frequency positive to the low frequency positive. I realize in practice it looks the same but if one of the wires internally are not working correctly this should weed that out Tim 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron167 Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 My 2 cents as I have been interested in bi-amping and read this thread... If the speakers were bi-amped, what, if any mods were made to them? Was an active crossover in use when demo'd to you (most likely yes). In reading about bi-amping and the KLF 30's, the low end does take more power. So, if you are not running as demo'd, bi-amped with an active crossover in play, you will not achieve what you heard. Bi-wiring is not letting you drive the low end independently. I read another member's post about bi-amping AND using subs. He explained that the 30's were great to down around 40 Hz and set his subs to 40 Hz and below. I think you have tried many things other than duplicate how they were demo'd and it seems to me you're in a "can't get there from here" scenario. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 I'm with you on that Tim as the no-bass problem occurred immediately after the speaker was bi-wired at the seller's house and then the HF and LF sections were wired back together. It somehow seems like the LF section is being bypassed altogether. That's why I want to put a second set of eyes on the speaker jumpers. I feel sure Thrasher knows what he's doing, but a double check wouldn't hurt. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrasher Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 I'm with you on that Tim as the no-bass problem occurred immediately after the speaker was bi-wired at the seller's house and then the HF and LF sections were wired back together. It somehow seems like the LF section is being bypassed altogether. That's why I want to put a second set of eyes on the speaker jumpers. I feel sure Thrasher knows what he's doing, but a double check wouldn't hurt. It really does seem like the LF is being bypassed. Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Do the woofers move noticeable in and out when you crank them up? It seems to me they should be moving about an inch, very noticeable when driven hard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrasher Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Do the woofers move noticeable in and out when you crank them up? It seems to me they should be moving about an inch, very noticeable when driven hard.Absolutely not. Barely even 1/8".Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrasher Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Do the woofers move noticeable in and out when you crank them up? It seems to me they should be moving about an inch, very noticeable when driven hard.When they were first auditioned, they did move a lot and they pushed a ton of air through the ports. I've yet to duplicate that. Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 3 hours ago, teaman said: I would do a simple red to positive from positive out on your amp and black to negative from your negative out on your amp. Then run a small black jumper from the high frequency negative to the low frequency negative....and a small red jumper from from the high frequency positive to the low frequency positive. I feel quite a few are recommending the above---If the OP has done this something is wrong with the speaker. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teaman Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 Sounds like jjptkd is going to head to thrashers in coming weeks. Thanks to him for his offer to help! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrasher Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 I feel quite a few are recommending the above---If the OP has done this something is wrong with the speaker.I have done this with and without the jumpers. After hearing originally that the jumper wasn't needed, I set it up again couple weeks ago without it. Sound is just the same with or without it. I'm willing to redo it again with a jumper. Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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