jwgorman Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 I know some of you get to listen often to a whole lot of different speakers and I'm sure you've formed some opinions about the various strengths of the old school Klipsch speaks. I had a buddy stop over last night and we spun some vinyl and listened for hours and started reminiscing about the good old days when he worked at Audio Room and sold Klipsch and B&W and Magnepan and others. I've owned 4 pairs of Maggies, a pair of Vandersteen 3As and properly powered/set up they can do magic 3D stuff that I would never expect any Klipsch hertiage speaker to do. (and I'm cool with that due to Klipsch's other strengths. There's a reason I don't own the Maggies or Vandersteens any more) My buddy had a pair of Cornwall IIs and we were remembering all the vinyl and CDs we spun listening to them at his house with some modest electronics (NAD 3020) and how good it sounded and our old men recollections were that they imaged more precisely than my Khorns (but didn't energize the whole room etc). The Belles I used to own and khorns I currently own really have a solid center image, but nothing like the stuff than can float off center like the bigger Vandersteens or Maggies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Speakers are only part of the equation. Setup of the speakers has a lot to do with imaging. Distance from rear wall, side wall, MLP relative to speakers ect, all affect imaging. Also, the room reverb, reflection, bass decay, ect. Maybe the question is not which speakers image better but, how to improve imaginig in your room. I can't talk because mines could be better but, I'm stuck with the room constraints and do the best I can. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Imaging? Heritage? Without any modifications or help from electronic processing, my top pick would be the Heresy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 7 hours ago, jwgorman said: Which Heritage speaker images the best, in your opinion? ...I've owned 4 pairs of Maggies, a pair of Vandersteen 3As and properly powered/set up they can do magic 3D stuff that I would never expect any Klipsch hertiage speaker to do... The second-generation Klipschorn...the Klipsch Jubilee, a PWK-Roy Delgado design. Hands-down. Chris 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubo Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 No doubt some speakers perform better than others, but not in every way for every application. I would think any of the Heritage would sound pretty good in every respect if the room geometry and damping are good. My Heresy 1s sound great in my 16x16 bedroom at head level inc image. My experience is that a room that is at least 20 x 30 sounds pretty good in every respect inc imaging. My LaScalas sound ...image....very well in just about any room, K-Horns did too when I was sampling side by side in 1980, better than any other product in the line. As to the up-reved or Jubilee, I doubt they would perform worse, most likely better as next gen and uprevs of proven engineers, designs and products. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwgorman Posted October 11, 2016 Author Share Posted October 11, 2016 My current room is about 17x25, vaulted ceilings, a lot of insulated drapes and a rug in front of my sofa. I see no alternative to buying a few older pairs of heritage speaks and experimenting. I'd bet the heresys have the least amount of time alignment issues and with the smallest cab, I could see how those in a moderately sized room would do well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubo Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 Start with some Forte 2s around 4 feet off of the wall, perhaps the best sleeper I have heard. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwgorman Posted October 11, 2016 Author Share Posted October 11, 2016 Ooo! Yeah, I remember those. I was impressed by those the last time I heard them...like 20 some years ago! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 Forte IIs are excellent. Not sure you need four feet from wall, but my question is vaulted ceiling or cathedral? Think vault like an auditorium, and cathedral like an inside peaked roof. If vaulted best results should be gained from placement on the low side of the vault, as a stage would be in a concert hall. Heresies will not give you the bass response on their own like forte's will. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twk123 Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 The two biggest factors for me with imaging with my LaScalas was building a baffle to align the tweeter driver with the mid-range driver. That and near field reflections destroy imaging because you get a slight echo from the wall a few milliseconds after the speaker and it muddles your sound stage so its important to have some kind of dampening at the primary reflection points along the L/R walls between you and the speaker. Comb filtering off the back wall can be an issue too but for me that creates a certain harshness and ear fatigue more than hurting the imaging itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 "he worked at Audio Room and sold Klipsch and B&W and Magnepan" I would probably know them? I suggest a pair of Cornwall II or Forte, and I will mod them for you for free (you pay for some new caps). The Forte sounds better IMO, but depending on how loud you listen you may need the Cornwall for it's efficiency (large room). Sometime next year I am building a golden mean listening room, but decided 10x16x25 was too big, and will go 9 x 14.4 x 23 instead. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 I think imagining is mostly stemming from the quality of the source recorded engineering, geometric room/speaker placement, amp topology, and finally the speaker itself, probably in that order. That said, the variation of imaging among speakers I think is a strong indicator of what they get right. Based on my 42 years experience with Heresy and 10 years with La Scala, I would say the former is very good, and the latter is even more very good. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 4 hours ago, pauln said: I think imaging is mostly stemming from the quality of the source recorded engineering, [mastering used], geometric room/speaker placement [and acoustic treatments], amp topology, and finally the speaker itself, probably in that order. Yes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 On 10/11/2016 at 0:11 AM, twk123 said: The two biggest factors for me with imaging with my LaScalas was building a baffle to align the tweeter driver with the mid-range driver. Simple to do and works great, making a huge difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 depends on photograher 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twk123 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 9 minutes ago, Marvel said: Simple to do and works great, making a huge difference. I have a small room and it made a huge difference. I did have some issues though. At first the Crites tweeter was too high and shooting above my head. The vertical response is poor on the tweeter and the speakers sounded extremely hollow and lifeless until I angled them down slightly. I also noticed a near field reflection on the top of the speaker made them sound "hot" but a piece of acoustic egg crate solved that and now they sound truly holographic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 I used the Eminence horn that goes with the APT50 driver, and didn't really notice any reflections. I'm not saying there weren't any, but I also put different materials on the top of the LS cabinets, with no apparent difference, so I left it off. How high off the tops are your tweeters? Here's a pic of mine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 when I sit in the "sweet spot" (which I admit is rather small in my listening room) my klipschorns image like crazy. some speaker seem to have larger sweet spots (my maggies did for example) but I love the impact and jump my k-horns give me so I ignore the smallish imaging sweet spot. warm regards from sunny el salvador, Tony 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwgorman Posted October 14, 2016 Author Share Posted October 14, 2016 On October 12, 2016 at 6:22 PM, djk said: "he worked at Audio Room and sold Klipsch and B&W and Magnepan" I would probably know them? I suggest a pair of Cornwall II or Forte, and I will mod them for you for free (you pay for some new caps). The Forte sounds better IMO, but depending on how loud you listen you may need the Cornwall for it's efficiency (large room). Sometime next year I am building a golden mean listening room, but decided 10x16x25 was too big, and will go 9 x 14.4 x 23 instead. Yes you do. Guckenberger came over last weekend Dennis. We were talking about the good old days when the Audio Room was on 1st Ave and then out on 6th street etc. BTW, I'd still like to take you up on the offer to listen to the faital pro drivers and horns one of these day. I have my eyes out for some Cornwall IIs and Fortes as I know you think highly of them and yes, some times, I like to listen to music loud. Go figure. On October 10, 2016 at 11:01 PM, oldtimer said: Forte IIs are excellent. Not sure you need four feet from wall, but my question is vaulted ceiling or cathedral? Think vault like an auditorium, and cathedral like an inside peaked roof. If vaulted best results should be gained from placement on the low side of the vault, as a stage would be in a concert hall. Heresies will not give you the bass response on their own like forte's will. I would have the latter, a cathedral. 3 hours ago, sunnysal said: when I sit in the "sweet spot" (which I admit is rather small in my listening room) my klipschorns image like crazy. some speaker seem to have larger sweet spots (my maggies did for example) but I love the impact and jump my k-horns give me so I ignore the smallish imaging sweet spot. warm regards from sunny el salvador, Tony I know what you mean Tony! Good to hear from you again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexg5775 Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Ive owned rf-82, la scalas, klipschorns, cf4's, and lastly danley designed td1's. Out of the klipsch the cf4 imaged the best. The Danleys td1's imaged MUCH better than all of them. IMO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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