Mallette Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 So, Elon Musk has been contacted by two unidentified individuals who want toe circumnavigate the moon...soon. Elon says SpaceX will be ready to do it next year. I've no doubt he can deliver. He's yet to fail to do so on what he says he can do. Granted, nobody pays any attention, yet, even to his Buck Rogers act of making the return of boosters to safe landing on a postage stamp. But I think people may actually tune out to "The Voice" and such long enough to participate in HD video of the first pure space passengers in history traveling to the moon and back. If he can do that, landing and helping himself, and us, to the riches of the moon is child's play. And he's my favorite kid. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 I hope they have good insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 1, 2017 Author Share Posted March 1, 2017 People wanting to do those things don't care about insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Looking forward to the giant corporate logo for VIAGRA on the side of the first stage rocket.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 1, 2017 Author Share Posted March 1, 2017 Whatever it takes. Musk clearly has the "right stuff" so missing from our other corporate and national leadership. BTW, if these guys can afford to underwrite this trip, I rather suspect they are self-insured. Dave 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mungkiman Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 7 hours ago, Mallette said: Granted, nobody pays any attention, yet, even to his Buck Rogers act of making the return of boosters to safe landing on a postage stamp. I'd suggest occasionally, at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 2, 2017 Author Share Posted March 2, 2017 8 hours ago, mungkiman said: I'd suggest occasionally, at best. Occasionally what? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 If that happens, look for an unprecedented boom in "Space Law." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 What about the planned trip to the sun. Will that be round-trip or one-way ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muel Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 I'll just wait a year for my trip around the sun and back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mungkiman Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 4 hours ago, Mallette said: Occasionally what? Occasionally they land upright and intact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 2, 2017 Author Share Posted March 2, 2017 Believe the record is perfect since the first two events, which were near misses with procedural failures. The success is not as amazing as how much success they've had with something no one else has done with a full sized booster. What they are doing is creating the future of space travel. Musk's rockets are based on nothing previous except Newton's Law. He is a bona fide genius with very specific goals and he is making it happen. NASA estimated billions spent and a decade to return to the moon. Musk is doing it in one year. I would not be surprised if he was on the ground in two if he wants to be. However, Mars is where he wants to be...and I believe he will get there unless he dies too soon. I am a fan, actually, fanatic. I pray for his safety and continued health as I believe humanities future depends on him. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsosdrummer Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 4 hours ago, Mallette said: NASA estimated billions spent and a decade to return to the moon. Musk is doing it in one year. Successfully putting relatively small satellites into Earth orbit is one thing; successfully putting humans into Earth orbit is something very different, and getting anything (much less humans) free of Earth's gravity in such a way that you can then get it (them) back again in one piece isn't even in the same ballpark. I suggest reading the following for a taste of just how little room there is for error in the whole "putting stuff in rockets and getting it into space in the desired condition" endeavor: https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/expeditions/expedition30/tryanny.html I too admire Musk, his audacity of purpose and his willingness to turn all our dreams into reality. I hope that his Moon program goes smoothly, but remember that his rocket required for lifting humans hasn't even flown yet, and that the program is only one test failure away from immediately becoming years behind schedule. NASA was extremely lucky that the Apollo 4 flight (the first all-up flight test of all 3 Saturn V stages) was a relative success. If anything had gone seriously wrong on that flight we never would have made it to the Moon within the timeframe set forth by President Kennedy back in 1961. (BTW, SpaceX's record for successful recovery of boosters is only 8 out of 13.) As for Mars, getting there isn't the big issue: keeping humans alive for the year-long trip there and the year-long trip back is, unless Musk can shorten the travel time by inventing and perfecting some as-yet-unknown rocket propulsion system that has a much higher specific impulse than the current state-of-the-art in chemical propulsion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 3, 2017 Author Share Posted March 3, 2017 1 hour ago, hsosdrummer said: Successfully putting relatively small satellites into Earth orbit is one thing; successfully putting humans into Earth orbit is something very different, and getting anything (much less humans) free of Earth's gravity in such a way that you can then get it (them) back again in one piece isn't even in the same ballpark. Irrelevant to Musk. Falcon heavy lift can easily handle this. Even just Falcon lifts the Dragon filled with cargo to ISS with no sweat. Dragon was designed from the ground up to be multi-purpose, with convertibility to a manned version. Far superior to any other launch system on the planet. Heavy lift is the same rocket with strap on boosters...also proven, if very expensive, methodology. Falcon can get the Dragon into orbit with nor problem. Only reason for the boosters is to reach escape velocity. Musk doesn't boast or grandstand. If he says he can do something he knows he can. As mentioned, nobody has even come close to putting a full scale booster back on an X as well as he has. People really ignore what is going on in space and don't seem to realize how far the commercial efforts have come. Scaled Composites, Blue Origins, and others have highly advanced systems. None of those have the payload capacity of SpaceX, but others are returning vehicles to earth for reuse much more efficiently than NASA ever did. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsosdrummer Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Hey, I'm on your side. but putting people into space and getting them back alive requires more than a rocket that's up to the task. The shuttle Challenger disaster was not due to an equipment failure, but to a program management failure. A launch was approved in conditions outside of the spacecraft's (solid boosters) design limits. Engineers knew this and tried to stop the launch but were overruled by managers. In addition to building a vehicle that can reliably and safely do the job, Musk must also build an organization that can reliably and safely do the job. Even with a faulty management culture NASA managed to launch 24 successful shuttle missions. Unfortunately, the 25th mission was the inevitable disaster that had been waiting to happen all along. No one, not even Elon Musk and his organization is immune from the razor-thin margins that separate successful space travel from disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 3, 2017 Author Share Posted March 3, 2017 2 hours ago, hsosdrummer said: In addition to building a vehicle that can reliably and safely do the job, Musk must also build an organization that can reliably and safely do the job. Absolutely what it is all about, and also why I believe Musk is the guy to do it. As you probably know, it was predicted before it happened that 1 in 25 shuttle missions would involve failure. Precisely on time, it happened, and for the reasons you mentioned. But Must is commercial and the only pressures he responds to are those to get it right. In government and military operations, losses are an acceptable risk. Not in private endeavors. The biggest difference is that Musk's motives are not to make a lot of money, or to impress people, but to get to Mars personally. That means in one piece. He will not accept risks to others he isn't willing to take, nor is he willing to accept a risk that will endanger his own goal. It's unique in all capitalism. I love it. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebuy Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Is Musk going to be on this Moonshot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebuy Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 As you're flying through space, your music will be provided by little Bose cubes. Space in Space has it's own problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 3, 2017 Author Share Posted March 3, 2017 9 hours ago, rebuy said: Is Musk going to be on this Moonshot? Good question, and one I've wondered about. Certainly adequate room. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsosdrummer Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 In spaceflight the margins for error are so thin that eventually some people will die going into space, no matter the hardware or the program. Humans just aren't perfect, and they can't build perfect machines and organizations, no matter how careful they are. If we want to continue exploring space and if we eventually want to colonize other worlds, as a society we need to have the stomach to accept this loss, otherwise we will spend eternity bound to an Earth that we are destroying at an ever-accelerating rate. If I had the money I'd ride Musk's Moon rocket on its first flight, just as I said the day after the Challenger disaster that I would go up in another Space Shuttle that day. I'm now 65 years old and am ready for a final great adventure before I die, even if it turns out to be riding a rocket for only 78 seconds before it blows up. Any person or society who wants to go into space simply has to be willing to accept this risk, because it will always be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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