scalawag Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 Have been curious for a long time regarding the use of tubed components in my 2 channel system, specifically in the preamp stage, and this Forum has been very helpful to me in weighing the pros and cons of moving in that direction. Well, a week ago I could resist the urge no longer and finally took the plunge and ordered a "plug-n-play" VTA SP14 (Tubes4Hifi). The unit arrived just two nights ago, intact with not a scratch due to the careful packaging of the component. I find the SP14 appealing with its understated silver exterior appearance and its precise and tidy fabrication of the interior. I've only logged in about 12 hrs of listening time with the SP14 controlling my two Yamaha Int Amps, but for the moment what I'm hearing is quite good. I can't express it in bonafide audiophile terms, but it seems as if the sounds coming from the La Scala fronts and the RP250 rears have grown wider and taller, larger but not necessarily louder, somewhat similar to the effect I receive whenever I engage the holographic stage of the trusty Carver C-4000 pre I have been using for some time. I also find that the SP14 slightly surpasses the Carver in its ability to present more details in its audio presentation, particularly when the Carver is in holographic mode. Though the Carver has always sounded good to me, to my ears the SP14 transmits the upper freq signals a tad more cleanly with no harshness and the low freq signals with a bit more oomph and no muddiness relative to the Carver. Overall, I am quite pleased with the addition of the SP14 to my home set-up, and look forward to even more listening pleasure as the tubes (4 Tungsol 6SN7GTB) continue to "break in." Speaking of tubes, I have read the very favorable reviews regarding the Shuguang Treasure Series CV-181Z/6SN7 tubes as mentioned by member Schu in another thread, and I'm tempted to plunge even further into this tube madness. Thanks for reading - happy listening! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 I have the older SP6 phono/line stage combo that was actually used for the a Dynaco PAS3 upgrade. It is a very nice pre amp for what I have in it. I think Tubes4hifi is a great product and would consider purchasing from them again, plus Roy is nice to work with. Congrats on the new pre amp, I am sure you will enjoy if for years to come. On a side note, I I once stumbled upon a hundred or so 12sn7 and 6sn7s. At the time, I didn't know people were making preamps with them, if I had I would have kept them. Oh well lesson learned, never get rid of tubes, especially if they are good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 I almost bought a sach's sp14... in many ways I wish I had. I am a big fan of the 5692/6sn7 tubes... I feel they are capable of great spacial qualities. If I had not gotten a chance to own a NBS with Jupiters, I certainly would own a Sach's sp14 with jupiters. I still might make move to a 6sn7 preamp of some type at some point. Do yourself a huge favor, for 2 channel, invest in a tube amplifier. While the tube pre helps immensity with your solid state amplification, there is much to be gained by inserting a nice tube amplifier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 In the late 1980's, there was an ad campaign that basically said "THIS is not your fathers Oldsmobile" I am reminded of that now. Oldsmobile itself, is no longer. I clicked on this one because of the SP14, I was like HEY, I have one of those! Mine: http://www.arcdb.ws/SP14/SP14.html hmmmm, not exactly the product being discussed here however. VTA : "Buyers note - this preamp does NOT have a phono preamp section in it - it will NOT fit inside this chassis!" Sounds line a LINE STAGE amp to me, no phono preamp? Harrumph! At least MY SP14 has a phono preamp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scalawag Posted April 21, 2017 Author Share Posted April 21, 2017 12 hours ago, Hal said: "I clicked on this one because of the SP14, I was like HEY, I have one of those! Mine: http://www.arcdb.ws/SP14/SP14.html hmmmm, not exactly the product being discussed here however. VTA : "Buyers note - this preamp does NOT have a phono preamp section in it - it will NOT fit inside this chassis!" Sounds line a LINE STAGE amp to me, no phono preamp? Harrumph! At least MY SP14 has a phono preamp." I thought to include that info in my original post, but supposed that many folks on this forum were already aware or would investigate this component on their own depending on interest level. I acquired this SP14 fully recognizing the "pros and cons" and don't regret the choice one bit. Plus, now I have an "excuse" to search out a dedicated phono pre to add to my system. Any recommendations, any one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Parks audio budgie.... and sut. What line stage have you owned in the past that you can compare the sp14 to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scalawag Posted April 21, 2017 Author Share Posted April 21, 2017 Hey, Schu! Thanks for mentioning the Parks Audio unit as it certainly falls within my budget and warrants looking into! As far as previous phono stages go, I've only had the Yam CA-1000 and CA-2010 and found both to be adequate if a tad "clinical." The Carver C-4000 Pre phono stage is more open and easier to listen to over sustained periods than either Yam, but has recently become redundant with the insertion of the SP14, hence my search for an add-on phono pre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 I wanted to ask... what is the noise floor like on the sp14? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scalawag Posted April 23, 2017 Author Share Posted April 23, 2017 4 hours ago, Schu said: I wanted to ask... what is the noise floor like on the sp14? Hey Schu, This is a tricky question to answer, as my ears are well past their prime and what I hear or don't hear anymore may be significantly different than what you or anyone else can hear. With that qualifier stated, I find the SP14 to be no more "noisier" than either of my Yamaha Int Amps. Late at night when all is quiet inside as well as outside the home, with all components on but no music playing, I can hear "white noise" if I bend down and put my ears within 20 inches of the 'Scala squawkers. Beyond that distance, and certainly where my listening position is ( typically 12'-15' away), I hear none of that. The result is essentially no annoying/unwanted interference during softer musical passages or between tracks. So as far as I'm concerned, I would grade the SP14 as having a low "noise floor." But again, YMMV. Hope that helps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Tyvm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scalawag Posted November 29, 2017 Author Share Posted November 29, 2017 Replying with an update to my original post in April. Last week I ventured into the pursuit of "tube rolling" and acquired a matched set of the Psvane CV181-Tii Premium tubes. These are a newer and "improved" version of the Shuguang Black Treasure tubes that have received very favorable reviews recently from tube rollers, and even VTA's Bob M himself. The Psvane group is an interesting story which I won't get into here, but you can easily read up on them by doing a search. My SP14 Pre performed quite admirably with the supplied Tungsol 6SN7GTB tubes (top pic), yielding a slighly warmer sound signature than the Carver Pre I had been using. But having been made aware of the Psvane CV181 tubes I couldn't resist the temptation of trying them in my setup. Roy at VTA suggested just going with a pair in the driver stage, which made the change-over much more wallet-friendly. The Psvane tubes plugged right into the sockets without difficulty (bottom pic), but because they are wider there is very little air space between them, potentially causing them to run hotter over time. And these grey bottle tubes are also taller, so that the SP14 cover no longer fits properly - I will have to make cutouts for clearance. With about 50 hrs of listening time so far, the Psvane tubes seem to impart a slightly smoother sound over the Tungsols with no loss of detail or dynamics - not dramatic by any stretch of the imagination but evident nevertheless IMO. With more hours to break in the tubes I can only expect a better listening experience - all is good. Thanks for reading - happy listening and Happy Holidays! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 I thought the 181 treasures were quite good for the money in both presentation and in sound... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBO1957 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 For the money, the SP14 is a decent entry level Pre. I added some Mundorf SOG caps and some 181 treasures to mine as well as a third preout for a sub. Improved the sound but could never get the "hum" from appearing on my Cornwall III or Heresy III drivers. Played around with grounding etc to no avail. Upgraded to a PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium preamp with the 12AU7 first stage and drivers. You can tube roll to your heart's content with that valve. Difference is night and day on sound quality and the noise floor is in the cellar now. PL is also bout 3x or so more $, so I guess you get what ya pay for. VTA has been demoted to second string in my workroom system for now. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 I've heard of numerous and continuous reviews about noise floor issues with toroidal transformer applications with tube topologies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No.4 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 I have not read any other reviews of this pre that report noise issues. Has anyone else had any experience with this pre that can chime in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wdecho Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 On 3/25/2018 at 1:26 PM, Schu said: I've heard of numerous and continuous reviews about noise floor issues with toroidal transformer applications with tube topologies. It can depend on the quality of the toroidal transformer and whether it is shielded or not. Being a diy'er and having used Antek Toroid's I have not had any problems with using them in tube amplications. Plitron is another brand many use for any application but is more expensive than Antek. I would not say the issue of noise is the toroid but the manufacturer of the toroid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 On 3/25/2018 at 2:20 PM, BOBO1957 said: For the money, the SP14 is a decent entry level Pre. I added some Mundorf SOG caps and some 181 treasures to mine as well as a third preout for a sub. Improved the sound but could never get the "hum" from appearing on my Cornwall III or Heresy III drivers. Played around with grounding etc to no avail. Upgraded to a PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium preamp with the 12AU7 first stage and drivers. You can tube roll to your heart's content with that valve. Difference is night and day on sound quality and the noise floor is in the cellar now. PL is also bout 3x or so more $, so I guess you get what ya pay for. VTA has been demoted to second string in my workroom system for now. Duh, I would make a statement that the Primalune in about double the cost. What is your point? More money gets you better gear? One would expect that, but it isn't always the case. I will stick with my little brick... JMA Merlin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieb Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 12 minutes ago, Marvel said: Duh, I would make a statement that the Primalune in about double the cost. What is your point? More money gets you better gear? One would expect that, but it isn't always the case. I will stick with my little brick... JMA Merlin. --- yeah, the Merlin is a sweet little preamp. I enjoyed it Much more than either of its bigger brothers. Much quieter too --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallpoul Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 There is an excellent SP-14 for sale on the Emotiva lounge: http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/52649/vta-sp14-tube-preamplifier-350 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No.4 Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 How often do the L/R gain knobs need to be adjusted? I am considering locating them off the front panel if they only need to be adjusted on a rare occasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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