Mallette Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 Jim: One of the things I've learned from this forum is how differently we all percieve sound. With less turntable, a lot less cartridge, and a bit less (as you well know) arm, I get LP sound that is, to all who've heard my system (audiophile or not), audibly superior to any digital source. It mystifies me that the combo you described does not do likewise. Perhaps you've a truly awesome digital source? My entry-level for digital is now the Card Deluxe. Next level, if I am to believe Forum members (and I do, unless I've personal experience to the contrary), is Rega Planet. As you are a jazz lover, I feel for you. I purchased a couple of dozen reissues of classic jazz recordings on MHS Jazz History label and found them singularly unsuccessful compared to the originals. Other reissues seem little better. As was discussed above, only fully or mostly electric music fares as well on digital as on analog, in my experience. I have 78's going well into the early 1920's that sound vibrant, real, alive, exciting, and only seem to hold that excitement recorded either to super bit mapped DAT or, even better, 24/96. There are no absolutes in this business, only a collection of individual experiences and mind sets. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Come taste muh' Klipsch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnorv Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 Well, I am going to give the ole TT one more shot. Just ordered an Ortofon X5-MC (high output MC). Thanks to NOS440's cheap cartridge link. Dave, if you ever make it to the Left coast (San Jose) look me up. My wife is threating me with a trip to Dallas to see the kin. Not sure if I am up to it. Jim N This message has been edited by jnorv on 09-23-2002 at 10:52 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 Jim, >>My wife is threating me with a trip to Dallas to see the kin. Not sure if I am up to it. hehehe, is that short for threatening or long for treating? Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnorv Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 I think that is the former rather than the latter. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnorv Posted September 25, 2002 Share Posted September 25, 2002 Well, it appears that a new cartridge was in order. This Ortofon (X5-MC) seems to be much better than the Sumiko Blue Point Special that Had last year. I don't remeber the detail that I hear with this one. And it is cheaper, too. Haven't gotten around to comparing it to SACD's yet. Jim N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spfrss Posted September 26, 2002 Share Posted September 26, 2002 If you're able to find one on Ebay, search for a Sony SCD777-ES. It's a 2-channel CD/SACD player which outperforms all but the most exotic players. Really good at SACDs but it's almost a bonus, it shines with plain redbook CDs. I heard it was sold greatly underpriced just to launch the new medium. Ciao Mauro (& '99KHorns) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnorv Posted September 26, 2002 Share Posted September 26, 2002 I have one. It is as good as my CEC 2.0/MSB upsampling DAC on CD's. Jim N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted September 26, 2002 Share Posted September 26, 2002 It's amazing that I recently read an article in hi-fi+ magazine, where a person wrote a letter to the editor concerning SACD and how his purchase of an SACD player led him back to LP's. His first observation was that the sound of most SACD's was AWESOME....Then after about 2 weeks of great excitement he suddenly realized that it all reminded him of his youth. A youth of valve amplifiers and, yes, you may have got it, LP's. To make a long story short, he's happy to have rediscovered music. I have no intentions of saying anything negative about SACD, just that there is a lot of music to be found in the grooves of vinyl LP's. There must be a reason why turntables are showing up in new models all over the world. We just seem a little slow to get it here in the US. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted September 26, 2002 Share Posted September 26, 2002 Been out of pocket a couple of days preping for a recording session tomorrow. Two violins, piano, cello, clarinet. Should be fun, and, hopefully, get the kind of sound you can only get by DIY! Jim: Give in to the wife, come to Dallas, then find an excues to hie thee to fair Flower Mound. Love to have you visit! Glad the new cartridge is helping...I KNEW it wasn't the medium. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANOCASTER Posted September 28, 2002 Share Posted September 28, 2002 STOP ALL THE JIBBA JABBA AND GO GET YO-SELF A GOOD TABLE AND SOME LICORICE PIZZAS !! Trust me..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Delaflor Posted September 28, 2002 Share Posted September 28, 2002 I still don't understand this new forum very well, this post was meant for another thread... sorry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted September 30, 2002 Share Posted September 30, 2002 Deang, The Roger Water's in the flesh was without doubt the best SACD I found (from 70 titles purchased). The only thing that came close to it in terms of an overall experience was the Jacintha Lush Life in mutli-channel. Generally it is fascinating to see different people's experiences of the various formats and their preferences. Someone here posted how their vinyl experience was pleasant but flat in comparison to their CD's. To me this is utterly amazing as it is the complete reverse of my own experience. On my setup nothing has the impact that vinyl does - the music is so much more tangible and dare I say it "real" than from the other media (including SACD) that I no longer listen to anything else. In fact I have sold my SACD player and am stuck with 70 SACD's I cant really listen to (many are 2 channel single layer disks). Maybe at some point I will get hold of a better player than the lowly NS900 DVD/SACD player I used to run but with the deluge of vinyl out there I dont anticipate this happening any time soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 30, 2002 Share Posted September 30, 2002 I was the one who made the comment that records sounded somewhat "flat" and compressed compared to CDs. This shouldn't be surprising though, as the dynamic range and noise floor of the digital domain is far superior to vinyl. "In the Flesh" shows the true potential of the SACD medium. The problem is not to be found in the CD medium -- but in the recording studio. Also, the SACD "Blow by Blow" by Jeff Beck, absolutely smokes the vinyl version (at least, on the vinyl rig I heard it on). My ears like the sound of digital, as long as it is recorded well. Preference may also be dictated by system and room. Rooms accommodating "full range" horns, and possess more then their fair share of hard, reflective surfaces -- may not be conducive to good sound from digital. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted September 30, 2002 Share Posted September 30, 2002 deang, I completely disagree with your evaluation that vinyl sounds flat compared to vinyl. If anything, a good vinyl setup of TT, tonearm and cartridge sounds more alive and compelling than CD. That's why many are going back to vinyl and leaving CDs. I think I have a good CD player(Rega Planet), but my VPI Scout with JMW tonearm, and Clear Audio cartridge wins. I cannot say what sounds good to you, but you owe it to yourself to hear a good vinyl setup. Klipsch out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted September 30, 2002 Share Posted September 30, 2002 I have both a TT and a CD player, after hearing so much talk about how great LPs sound I decided to "go back" for a while to LPs...I must admit to hearing some more "jump" from the LPs than I seem to get from the CDs as well as somewhat more "air"...BUT I really cannot stand the surface noises and do not like all the care I have to put into the LPs and TT (cleaning, adjusting, etc.)...so, I have since put the LPs back on the shelf and returned to listening to my CDs. I am quite satisfied with my setup playing CDs and thus suspect I would love the SACD since most people say it gets closer to LPs' sound, however I will NOT buy yet again all my favorite content, I went through that painful process when I switched to CDs form LPs...I guess I have chosen to let well enough alone and just enjoy the music, I am sure I can get some improvments buying spending the farm on better amplification, cables, SACD, better TTs, you name it...but I have decided to just take a break form the audio hobby and enjoy the music...JMTC...regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnorv Posted September 30, 2002 Share Posted September 30, 2002 You might consider an upsampling DAC. It gets CD's closer to SACD performance. Jim N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted September 30, 2002 Share Posted September 30, 2002 To be "allergic" to LP surface noise, or any other uncontrollable noise would be tragic for me. No live performances, as there is far more "surface noise" there than 90% of my records. Farewell to my favorite Rhapsody in Blue, recorded by George himself with the Whiteman band. Not only a 78, but appears to have been sanded at some point...nonetheless, superb music that can't be had elsewhere. One thing I've found on the forum...each of us is unique in one or more ways. I've realized that CD is perfectly adequate for electrically based music, and can get good enough for other types of music to be tolerable and even enjoyable. Higher res digital formats get better as you go up the scale. OTOH, the vast majority of material that I like isn't available in any of those, and probably won't be for decades, and you'll get my LP's only from my cold, dead hand. Jim: Anything on the Dallas trip? Looking forward to having you over... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eq_shadimar Posted September 30, 2002 Share Posted September 30, 2002 ---------------- On 9/30/2002 4:28:10 PM Mallett wrote: Jim: Anything on the Dallas trip? Looking forward to having you over... Dave ---------------- Yeah yeah let us know. Always looking for a good reason to get the DFW Klipsch group together. Laters, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnorv Posted September 30, 2002 Share Posted September 30, 2002 You guys are hard up if you need a new excuse. My wife is trying to work in an opening in her travel schedule. might be late in the year. Jim N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted September 30, 2002 Share Posted September 30, 2002 I have some concerns with SACD. While the format has the ability to surpass redbook CDs, it was also designed IMHO more for the copy protection and potential to sell expensive players and keep the media prices inflated. DVD 24/96 DAD Audio looks so much more attractive to me as a media. At least with that format, I can record my LPs at 24/96 clean up the pops, and record to DVD Audio. I think if we are to show support as consumers for a format, it should be the format the people at Classic Records are using. http://www.classicrecs.com/ Buy into the SACD hoopla and forever will it control your destiny. snipped from the Classic web site... MASTERTAPE SOUND IN YOUR LISTENING ROOM Revolutionary Digital Audio Product that plays on a home DVD Video Player! The Classic 24/96 Digital Audio Disc DAD is designed to be an audiophile musical reference. The process starts with the encoding of an analog signal from a live microphone feed or more commonly from an analog master tape. The highly sophisticated Analog to Digital converter (A to D) samples the analog signal 96,000 times per second (96kHz) and assigns a numerical value to each sample point. The 96kHz sampling rate is more than twice the 44,100 (44.1kHz) sampling rate used on standard CD's. The numerical value assigned at 96kHz - about every 10.4 microseconds - is stored as a 24 bit digital word. The significance of a 24 bit digital ward is that there are 16.8 million different potential values for each 24 bit word! By contrast there are only 65,536 different potential values for a 16 bit word on a normal CD. The additional 8 bits on a DAD allow for over 16 million additional voltage values to represent the original analog signal. Further, 24 bit resolution offers 144 dB of dynamic range from the softest to the loudest musical note. At 144 dB of dynamic range we greatly exceed even the dynamic range available on the world's finest analog tape machines. For the first time in the history of digital audio we can provide Master Tape Sound MTSTM. After the analog signal is encoded, the resulting 24 bit/96kHz digital data stream is stored on a large computer hard disk. The raw data is then transferred to a post production facility for "authoring" - a process that results in the creation of a digital tape called a DLT that is sent to the disc manufacturing plant. At the plant, the DLT is used to make a "glass master" which produces stampers that are used to injection mold that DAD discs. In all, the process is quite a bit more involved than making CD's but we hope that you will appreciate the extra effort when you hear what this technological wonder has to offer. Reviews by MuzikMan Earl Hines & Jimmy Rushing "Blues & Things" Lou Donaldson "Lou Takes Off-DAD 1026" Sam Phillips "Cruel Inventions" Dr. John "Dr. John Plays Mac Rebennack" John Lee Hooker "Boom Boom" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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