Forte I - disappointed

[Emile]

Hi,

 

New to the forum, but used it many, many times and appreciated all the reviews/opinions.

 

Got my first Klipsch in the 80's ... Cornwall I's. Still have them and will never "part" with them  Cornwall's are hooked up to a Marantz 2252B, coupled with a A/V system with KG3.2's, Kg1.5's, KG5.2's (rear) and a KV2 center. Seperate room has a Marantz 1060 ( and tube amp Pilot 230) hooked up to KG4.'s.

 

So; picked up a set of really nice (stock) Forte I's for this room. Thought they would "blow away" the KG4's ... but NO. The Forte's sound good, but not any better than the KG4's. Bass is a little deeper, but mid-range seems better on the KG4's ... OK; I admit the KG4's have Crites Titanium diaphragms  .

 

Would appreciate any advice/comments.

 

Many thanks, Emile

[billybob]

Welcome to the forum. Have had the KG-4 and the forte' Both were awesome. If you have the forte away from the wall as you have had the KG's so the passive radiator can breathe, you should have decent bass. The 4's for their size are hard to bear in the bass department. Forte' a different sound/signature. I would play with the placement and give them some power. You may have to want to consider later a refresh of crossover.

I did with my Chorus and am quite happy.

Welcome again and...

[Emile]

Thanks billybob,

 

Will try some different placements   Actually, have only one Forte hooked up (left) and kept my KG4 on the right to do a comparison. Did a Crites crossover replacement in my Cornwall's (and new horns) and could not tell the difference so hesitant about trying this with these Forte's.

 

Many thanks

[dtr20]

The old school crossover caps last longer. The newer style circuit board crossovers and cheaper made and the caps don't last as long, that COULD be your issue. Also, you could put the Crites titanium tweeter in one for a true a+b comparison.

[Emile]

Hi dtr20,

 

Thanks! Want to try the midrange titanium tweeter in first ... unfortunately Bob Crites is "out of stock." Interesting observation re the crossovers ... maybe that is why my Cornwall crossover replacement did not show the results I anticipated. And ... maybe I should try the Forte replacements. But ... $245 a pair   Guess I'll do some more experimenting first  

[PrestonTom]

If you are worried about the crossover's age, then you can replace the capacitors yourself (or a friend with a a soldering iron).

 

I suggest searching the threads for a schematic (and visually verify that it matches your model). Write down the cap values and get replacements from Madison or Parts Express (Bennic or Solen are fine). Do not worry about the other parts (inductors, autoformers, etc) and please do not "adjust" the values or taps to something "better".

 

Beware, there is much talk about the improvements with fresh capacitors. In my experience the result was that there was a bit more energy in the highs. Was it noticeable - YES. Did it "remove the veil", "tighten up the bass", make a "remarkable difference", etc - NO.

 

However, for $20-30 in parts, and about an hour of time, it was worth it.

Good Luck,

-Tom

[Emile]

Hi Tom,

 

Thanks a lot! Will try that before spending $245 on new crossovers .. since I was not pleased with the new crossovers in my Cornwall's  

 

"Experimented" some more and maybe I made a "rookie audiophile" mistake. Hooked up ONE Forte (left) and compared it to ONE KG4 (right) ... and thought the Forte I's were not "great." Hooked up both now and did an A/B comparison - both with my Marantz 2252B and a Pilot tube amp. Now  they sound better and "fuller" than my KG4's ... but are lacking the "crispness," possibly because my KG4's have the Crites titanium diaphragms (???).

 

Added note ... have tried these with many kinds of music, ranging from rock (Jimi Hendrix) to jazz (Keiko Matsui) to classical (Itzak Perlmam, Paganini Violin Concerto No.1) and film music (Country by Charles Gross, tracks 11 and 13, not attached due to mb limit; sorry). Last one used (?) to be my favorite for checking out my stereo components/speakers, but maybe I'm missing something here. Anyone for their favorite (OK; BEST) test music for their Klipsch speakers?

 

Many thanks! This forum (and the people) are just awesome!

[billybob]

Glad to hear the improvement with both(pair) forte' playing. Yes could be the Crites titanium or, need cap refresh in X-O's. Sounds like you are on track.

Happy trails.... Too bad the titaniums fron the KG-4 do not fit the forte' tweeters! just to try!?!

[willland]

35 minutes ago, Emile said:

both with my Marantz 2252B

I had one of these driving Fortes,  Quartets, and Heresys and all sounded great.

 

Bill

[Emile]

Thanks billybob and willand,

 

Just tried Beethoven's Ninth (part 4; choral) and Jimi Hendrix All along the Watchtower) and still my KG4's sounded better. Possibly due to my Crites Ti diaphragms in my KG4's, but no clue whether to try titanium diaphragms first on the mid-range squeakers or on the hi-range tweeters. Appreciate your inputs.

 

Thanks, Emile  

[Emile]

Add-on to previous. Finally  understand the squawker diaphragm issues on the Forte I's. The Ti diaphragms (about $160/pr from SimplySpeakers) have a very similar frequency response compared to the originals ... BUT ... the originals drop of at 6kHz (right where the tweeters come in) ... The Ti ones DO NOT drop off the same; they have a couple dB increase at about 7kHz, thus "interfering" with the tweeters. Bob Crites has a bandpass filter (see pic for sketch) to resolve this issue ($110/pr), but also noted to me "some like it some don't." So; decided to save some $$ and just wait till Dr. Bob gets his updated K-53 diaphragms back in stock.

 

Cheers, Emile 

[billybob]

6 minutes ago, Emile said:

Add-on to previous. Finally  understand the squawker diaphragm issues on the Forte I's. The Ti diaphragms (about $160/pr from SimplySpeakers) have a very similar frequency response compared to the originals ... BUT ... the originals drop of at 6kHz (right where the tweeters come in) ... The Ti ones DO NOT drop off the same; they have a couple dB increase at about 7kHz, thus "interfering" with the tweeters. Bob Crites has a bandpass filter (see pic for sketch) to resolve this issue ($110/pr), but also noted to me "some like it some don't." So; decided to save some $$ and just wait till Dr. Bob gets his updated K-53 diaphragms back in stock.

 

Cheers, Emile 

Mr. Crites knows his business alright. You do know you are showing a Heresy II schematic...

[Emile]

Hi billybob,

 

Yes; but the filter is supposedly the same (and pretty sure the crossover is also). And finally found out what those "hearts" are for   Thanks!

[Emile]

Hi billybob,

 

Add-on ... yes, Bob Crites' knowledge and advice is awesome! But ... what really makes him special is his "INTEGRITY." As a"newbie" I have asked him several times about some upgrades - willing to spend some good money; But ... instead of taking my $$'s, I have been given good advice instead of wasting $$'s. Extremely honorable!

 

Cheers, Emile

[garyrc]

6 minutes ago, Emile said:

Hi billybob,

 

Add-on ... yes, Bob Crites' knowledge and advice is awesome! But ... what really makes him special is his "INTEGRITY." As a"newbie" I have asked him several times about some upgrades - willing to spend some good money; But ... instead of taking my $$'s, I have been given good advice instead of wasting $$'s. Extremely honorable!

 

Cheers, Emile

 

Reminds me of the time ...

• That someone bought a pair of Klipschorns not too long before an improved model came out, and wrote PWK, asking if the improvement was dramatic, and, if so,  should he sell them and get the newer (and more expensive) model.  Paul wrote back saying if the customer had extra money he should contribute it to his favorite charity; to see significant improvements in the Klipschorn would take about 10 years, on the average.
• I called JBL to ask what the repair of a tweeter would cost.  I said I knew the warranty wouldn't cover it, because I had dropped it when up on a high ladder, and it landed on a concrete floor.  They replied that the cost would be about $16, plus labor (this was in about 1964!!).  I shipped it to them.  A few days later, I came home to find a package on my front porch.  It was a new tweeter, with a note in the box, "It turned out that your tweeter would have been a pain in the *** to repair, so have a new one on us, with the enclosed lifetime guarantee."

[Emile]

Awesome!

[Emile]

Thanks to all for your help/suggestions on my Forte I's. Think (?) my main problem was solved by installing Ti woofer diaphragms (will do the caps later). I believed my problem was in the midrange ... primary tones; but now think the 2nd, 3rd, etc harmonics come through via the tweeters and produce the richness in sound that I was missing. Would very much like to hear some comments on this (or links to explanations). (Added note to the experts on this forum; Yes, tried searching this site for many hours ... but probably missed page 78 on thread # 12643. Sorry  Some of us "newbies" are still trying to learn  )

Many thanks, Emile