La Scala + Academy In The House

[ka7niq]

17 minutes ago, Youthman said:

I had a Sherbourn 7/2100a (200 x 7) amp that I sold after buying the LaScalas as I no longer heard a difference between Receiver and Receiver + Amp due to their efficiency.

I have heard some folks on forums having luck with some Digital amps to power K Horns and other super efficient speakers.

You realize that Onkyo bought Pioneer, right ?

Some say it was to get their digital D3 amplifier, and/or eliminate a competitor.

The newest top of the line Onkyo's have the Pioneer D3 digital amp in them.

My old Onkyo TX NR 809 sounded amazing, and it has pre outs. I have several amplifiers here, and guess what ?

The internal Onkyo amp was as good, or better, then every amp I own! 

 

[geoff.]

I am quite impressed with the AL-3 crossover in my ‘92’s.

 

And I had to recruit a neighbour to help me unload them as well!

 

He got to pick the inaugural song for his efforts.

 

It took him two days to get the smile off his face.

 

I am still smiling every day and it has been three months now!

 

My only regret is that I didn’t take this leap sooner.

 

I sold my CF-3’s shortly after getting these.

 

 

[ka7niq]

1 minute ago, geoff. said:

I am quite impressed with the AL-3 crossover in my ‘92’s.

 

And I had to recruit a neighbour to help me unload them as well!

 

He got to pick the inaugural song for his efforts.

 

It took him two days to get the smile off his face.

 

I am still smiling every day and it has been three months now!

 

My only regret is that I didn’t take this leap sooner.

 

I sold my CF-3’s shortly after getting these.

 

 

LOL, I too had CF 3's, and had some questions about them, so I called Klipsch, and because someone in customer service was not there, I was put right through to Mr Roy Delgado himself, the designer of the Epic CF Series.

Roy and I figured out that I had CF 3 version 2's, and then Roy went on a very nice rant of how they ruined his speaker, by turning it into a boom box.

The CF series was not selling very well in showrooms, so marketing took it upon themselves to raise the vent tuning, and by doing so, ruined Roy's wonderful design. All that marketing needed to do was educate their dealers, to be sure that prospective buyers SAT DOWN to listen to them.

I restored my CF 3's series 2's to CF 3 series 1's by using the original port length.  I called Roy Delgado back to thank him, and he told me my goal should be a set of CF 4 Series 1's (3 db more efficiency)

I finally found a pair of the CF 4 series 1's, and used them for several years with an older pioneer receiver that had the awesome feature of several tone control memories!!!!!!!!!! 

Memory 1 was bass up 1 - treble up 1

Memory 2 Bass up 2 - Treble up 2

I had about 30 combinations of tone control settings I could engage at will, by remote control.

I was listening to Black Sabbath Paranoid on the CF 4 series 1's one day, with memory 2 of the tone controls engaged.

 

Suddenly, I saw a flashlight shining through my window, so I went to the front door. I was the Police, asking me to "tell the band to turn it down"  

 

 

 

[jimjimbo]

Being in Texas I use barb(ed) wire

On his kids....

[ka7niq]

1 hour ago, babadono said:

Your speaker wires pick up RF? Sure it's not something else in your set up?

1500 watt Amp

[Quiet_Hollow]

9 hours ago, Youthman said:

On Bob's site, he has chosen not to make upgrade crossovers for the AL because he feels they are the "less desirable" crossovers.

Ever heard an AL-3? It bears no resemblance in character to the AL. Not that I'm poo poo-ing the AA, just that a person can't simply gloss over the AL-3 based on the performance of the previous designs.

[ka7niq]

6 hours ago, Quiet_Hollow said:

Ever heard an AL-3? It bears no resemblance in character to the AL. Not that I'm poo poo-ing the AA, just that a person can't simply gloss over the AL-3 based on the performance of the previous designs.

These crossovers are AL 3's

I have already spotted a Capacitor in these crossovers that is gonna get replaced. It is a fairly large yellow Mylar.

I have had real good results with ERSE Poly Caps, after they break in.

But first, I plan to listen to these La Scala's, the way they are  

I have to make up some wires today for them, and move my other speakers out of their way.

The Academy Center Channel Speaker that came with these La Scala's is hooked up. I very much like the way it sounds !

However, it could probably benefit from some new caps  

 

My 37 year old Son stopped by this morning, and saw the La Scala's. He is very much an Audiophile, and just bought B&W 702 speakers.  He really liked the way my Black La Scala's look, called them "Retro Looking". 

His new B&W 702 speakers sound very nice, and are quite the departure from the normal B&W Sound

They are warm, rich, and image all over the place.

However, what they are not is Efficient  

 

My Son is an avid movie watcher, with a pair of Outlaw Audio subwoofers.  He is fixing to learn that there is no substitute for efficiency.  

[wvu80]

11 hours ago, ka7niq said:

I had about 30 combinations of tone control settings I could engage at will, by remote control.

I was listening to Black Sabbath Paranoid on the CF 4 series 1's one day, with memory 2 of the tone controls engaged.

 

Suddenly, I saw a flashlight shining through my window, so I went to the front door.

 

It was the Police, asking me to "tell the band to turn it down"  

Apparently your tuning efforts were successful.   

 

I also liked your Roy story.  It's second hand to me, but I like hearing first-hand stories about the CF-4's from someone who had talked with him.  I have the CF-4's modded and with a sub sounds better than my Type AA La Scalas, better than Type AA Khorns.

[ka7niq]

4 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

Apparently your tuning efforts were successful.   

 

I also liked your Roy story.  It's second hand to me, but I like hearing first-hand stories about the CF-4's from someone who had talked with him.  I have the CF-4's modded and with a sub sounds better than my Type AA La Scalas, better than Type AA Khorns.

Talking with Roy Delgado about the CF 4's, was almost like talking to a proud Father, about their Son.

He told me that not only do the CF 4 series 1 have more efficiency than the CF 3's, but he was also happier with the way the crossover came out.

However, please be careful, because Trey Cannon told me years ago that Klipsch did not have any replacement woofers for the CF 3's. 

That may mean they are out of CF 4 woofers as well ?

 

[Youthman]

8 hours ago, Quiet_Hollow said:

Ever heard an AL-3? It bears no resemblance in character to the AL. Not that I'm poo poo-ing the AA, just that a person can't simply gloss over the AL-3 based on the performance of the previous designs.

No, I'm not really that familiar with crossovers... I just know Shaun's were AL and he didn't care for them personally. 

 

Glad to hear the AL-3 are different than the AL crossovers. 

 

I just looked on Bob Crites website and apparently, he likes the AL-3, just not the AL.

 

Quote

We do not build the AK, AL, or AB crossovers since they are generally considered to be "not the best".  By around 1989, the design of these crossovers had changed (evolved) to the AK-3, AL-3 and AB-2 crossovers.  We do build those.

 

Here is a picture of our Type AL-3 crossover for the LaScala. We recommend that the Type AL used in LaScala speakers be replaced with our Type AL-3 or Type AA or Type A/4500

 

[ka7niq]

2 minutes ago, Youthman said:

No, I'm not really that familiar with crossovers... I just know Shaun's were AL and he didn't care for them personally. 

 

Glad to hear the AL-3 are different than the AL crossovers. 

 

I just looked on Bob Crites website and apparently, he likes the AL-3, just not the AL.

 

 

I will listen to them, I have no choice right now.  IME, different crossovers can sound different, to different people in different rooms.

As I understand it, the AL 3 crossover is not the original La Scala crossover, so one would like to think it sounds better then the original, or Klipsch would not have changed it.

I would like to get a parts list for these AL 3 crossovers, so I can order new Capacitors for them from Erse. 

[wvu80]

1 hour ago, ka7niq said:

Talking with Roy Delgado about the CF 4's, was almost like talking to a proud Father, about their Son.

He told me that not only do the CF 4 series 1 have more efficiency than the CF 3's, but he was also happier with the way the crossover came out.

However, please be careful, because Trey Cannon told me years ago that Klipsch did not have any replacement woofers for the CF 3's. 

 

That may mean they are out of CF 4 woofers as well ?

 

I have never heard of anybody blowing a CF-4 woofer but I have never seen one for sale, either.  I have heard of the K-63 compression driver blowing.  They are not available and are really hard to find on the used market although the EV DH1506 is a very nice drop-in replacment.

[ka7niq]

2 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

I have never heard of anybody blowing a CF-4 woofer but I have never seen one for sale, either.  I have heard of the K-63 compression driver blowing.  They are not available and are really hard to find on the used market although the EV DH1506 is a very nice drop-in replacment.

Back years ago, when my Son went through his Rap Music phase, he bottomed out my CF 4 woofers more times then I would have liked.

They "took a licking, but kept on ticking", probably because of the powerful amplifiers I used. It is hard for some to understand that a small amp when stressed will blow speakers faster then a large amp will. 

 

[babadono]

14 hours ago, ka7niq said:

1500 watt Amp

I was just suggesting that it is something else picking up the RF energy and delivering it to your speakers. Although not impossible of course, it is hard to induce voltage into the low impedance of speakers, speaker wires and the output impedance of your amplifier.

[ka7niq]

24 minutes ago, babadono said:

I was just suggesting that it is something else picking up the RF energy and delivering it to your speakers. Although not impossible of course, it is hard to induce voltage into the low impedance of speakers, speaker wires and the output impedance of your amplifier.

Well, what you say is true, however, my Ham Radio Antenna goes right across the roof of my house, putting the entire inside of the house in a large RF Field.

I also have a 1500 watt RF Amplifier, so what might be happening is sheer RF Overload

 

[ka7niq]

I have them hooked up now,  placed them right in the corners, looking down the Horn throats. Running them flat right now. These have the AL 3 crossovers, anyone have any idea how old these speakers are ? 

 

 

[geoff.]

Early 90’s.

 

Mine are 92’s.

 

I think they are on the AL/AK-5 crossover now.

 

I remember narrowing down my list of possible LaScala options to anything AFTER 1989 solely because of the crossover and RESIN K-401horn with the K-55-M driver.

 

I had heard some appaling LaScalas over the years, but I had also heard some impressive examples. Most recently a pair of Belles with modified AB crossovers. Those are what started my ear buds to salivating.

 

I bought these “sound unheard” based on what I have gathered from this forum and my own listening experiences.

 

And I was not disappointed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ka7niq]

I need to try some other amps on these. This Pioneer Elite I am using right now has what is called their Direct Energy NON Digital amps, but it does have Pre outs, so easy enough to enlist one of about 5 other amps I own. The sound I am getting at this moment is not terrible, but it is hardly great either.

This Pioneer Elite receiver has Pioneer's version of Audyssey called MCACC, so I ran it, twice.

It also has a thing called full band phase control.

I really don't think the La Scala's appreciate being hooked up to this receiver, and are telling me about it.

 

 

[ka7niq]

I need to try some other amps on these. This Pioneer Elite I am using right now has what is called their Direct Energy NON Digital amps, but it does have Pre outs, so easy enough to enlist one of about 5 other amps I own. The sound I am getting at this moment is not terrible, but it is hardly great either.

This Pioneer Elite receiver has Pioneer's version of Audyssey called MCACC, so I ran it, twice.

It also has a thing called full band phase control.

I really don't think the La Scala's appreciate being hooked up to this receiver, and are telling me about it.

 

I read a document that says the speakers normally have their horns running at -3 db, but says the level of the horns can be reduced up to 9 db. How do you do this ?

This forum will not allow me to upload the PDF Of The La Scala, so here is the link https://2d73e25b29782b6d6766-9c8af5cbfef16739445bc76457060528.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/Spec_650000_LaScala_635120758436390000.pdf

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2017 by ka7niq
added pdf link

[ka7niq]

I have them sounding MUCH better now. I took them out of the corners, firing right at me, to a more conventional arrangement, with the backs about a foot from the back wall, firing straight ahead. They sound much better this way, in my room, with this amp.

Of course, I am listening flat, no EQ, tone controls, or room correction.