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Byznasty

Need help figuring out which gauge to use

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I have read a lot of information on what gauge of wire to use, I'm just on the fence with what's the best to use, they say the power rating is 150-600 peak, not going any longer than 15 ft for my floor standing r28f's. 8 ohm compatible? I like to listen to it loud, got A Yamaha 683 amp. Everything I've read is leaning towards 16 gauge, but will 14 gauge impede or will it sound better? Going to run 16 gauge for my bookshelf and ceiling speakers. Only 25 ft runs each. Just figured with the big floor standing speakers I would need a thicker gauge. Thanks in advance 

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Go larger on the mains. I use 11 ga but some people think that’s over kill. 16ga is just find for sides and rears, but I would go with at least 14 on the mains.

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50 minutes ago, Byznasty said:

That's what I was thinking. Thanks for the help. 

Not so fast!  AWG is NOT everything.

 

Be sure to get OFC Oxygen Free Copper wire, and NOT CCA Copper Clad Aluminum.  CCA is the cheap stuff and the OFC is only about ten dollars more for 100' of 12 AWG.  If it doesn't say OFC on the spool then it is CCA, like RCA branded wire at Home Depot.

 

Quote

 

This speaker wire features two conductors made of high purity (greater than 99.95% pure), oxygen-free bare copper. Pure Bare Copper is a superior conductor to the copper clad aluminum (CCA) conductors used in most other inexpensive speaker wire. CCA is only about 68% as conductive as pure bare copper. This additional resistance is added to the impedance of your speakers and can negatively effect the sound.

 

For the wire to have no audible effect, the total wire resistance should be no more than 5% of the lowest impedance of your speakers. Even speakers rated for a nominal 8-ohms, may dip to as low as 4-ohms at some frequencies, which further reduces the total cable resistance allowed in the wire. Using Pure Bare Copper speaker wire ensures that the total load put on the amplifier remains as close as possible to the impedance curve of your speakers.

 

For example, a 16AWG 2-conductor Pure Bare Copper speaker wire has a total resistance of 0.803 ohms per 100 feet (both directions must be considered). By comparison, a 16AWG 2-conductor CCA speaker wire has a total resistance of 1.181 ohms per 100 feet. Assuming 4 ohms is the lowest impedance of your speakers, a speaker wire run can be no more 0.2-ohms total. 20 feet of 16AWG Pure Bare Copper would be 0.1606 ohms, well under the 0.2-ohm limit. On the other hand, 20 feet of 16AWG CCA would be 0.2362 ohms, well OVER the 0.2-ohm limit.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023903&p_id=29420&seq=1&format=2

 

 

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28 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

Not so fast!  AWG is NOT everything.

 

Be sure to get OFC Oxygen Free Copper wire, and NOT CCA Copper Clad Aluminum.  CCA is the cheap stuff and the OFC is only about ten dollars more for 100' of 12 AWG.  If it doesn't say OFC on the spool then it is CCA, like RCA branded wire at Home Depot.

 

 

I was gonna go with that mediabridge ofc https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00N18VBSI/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1U6PAVBPLQVBI&psc=1 

and also the 16 gauge of the same. Wish I could just get one or the other to save a buck but I'm not to worried about the money. Any recommendations for banana plugs as well thinking of just getting these Sewell ones. Does it have a big effect which types? https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B0072KOHQ4/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A9O0CECJHXEH&psc=1

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10 hours ago, Byznasty said:

Any recommendations for banana plugs as well thinking of just getting these Sewell ones. Does it have a big effect which types?

I use Monoprice wire, but there are a lot of good brands out there, Knu, Mediabridge, etc.

 

Banana plugs:  Yes, I think it makes a difference which banana plugs you get, and I've owned a bunch of different types.  In the last month I bought some Mediabridge and some GLS.  Both are fantastic but Mediabridge is the way to go for ease of use.  The GLS has incredible engineering for a banana plug but they took at least three times as long to set up.

 

I've never used the Sewell brand plugs but they are highly rated with a 4.2 on Amazon and I think they would do a good job for you.

 

Banana Plugs:

 

Monoprice:  Has dual set screws that hold the wire and you need a small screwdriver to use it.  Has a removable screw-on tip so you can use a banana tip or a pin tip used for old school spring loaded connectors.  Ad says it can use up to 12 awg wire but it will NOT, it can't even use its own 12 awg wire the casing is too big to fit into the plug.  The tips come loose and because of that, not recommended.

94362.jpg59753.jpg

 

Mediabridge:  Uses  a locking style that cinches the wire solidly into the plug and keeps the the casing from unscrewing.  Tool-free wire installation, quick and easy.  These are short and easy to insert.  It will easily handle 10 awg.  They have the highest rating of any product I've ever seen on Amazon, 4.9 stars.  Highest recommendation.

71r5z6bGJ2L._SL1500_.jpg

 

GLS:  By far has the biggest pros and cons.  Pros are that it has an excellent design and is well engineered.  A screw driver and 4 extra set screws are included.  It looks like it was constructed from a solid billet and then machined.  You twist it and the tip balloons out to solidly lock the plug into the connector.  This is easy to do at the speakers, very tight and hard to use in the AVR. 

 

It uses two set screws, one for the wire itself and one for the casing.  It will handle 10 awg.  It will not handle smaller wire like 16 awg because the set screws fall out into the case.  This is a long plug but rock solid in use, it's just a bear to set up.  The color polarity ring is thin plastic that can jam against the casing when the case is being unscrewed, I had three out of 20 pieces with this problem. 

 

These are more expensive than the others but If you have the time and patience to set it up properly and fiddle with it, highly recommended.

31jOD++phuL.jpg31SNUbIPs+L.jpg

 

Parts-express open back screw-on type:  All plastic and very easy to use as it has a set insertion distance.  Very easy to insert wire and it handles 10 awg with ease.  It has an open back so you can piggy back other plugs into it for bi-wiring.  These are inexpensive and they work.

 

 

Sewell set dual set screws:  Very solid holding the wire.  The case screws over top the set screws making it impossible for them to become loose and fall out.  This is my second favorite wire attachment method because it does not come out.  I have not owned the Sewells, but I own this type from Parts-express.  Highly recommended.

51-bBjzxjML._SL1000_.jpg

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Byznasty said:

I was gonna go with that mediabridge ofc https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00N18VBSI/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1U6PAVBPLQVBI&psc=1 

and also the 16 gauge of the same. Wish I could just get one or the other to save a buck but I'm not to worried about the money. Any recommendations for banana plugs as well thinking of just getting these Sewell ones. Does it have a big effect which types? https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B0072KOHQ4/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A9O0CECJHXEH&psc=1

For your purposes, go with the KnuKonceptz 12ga and the Sewell bananas you referenced above.

 

http://www.knukonceptz.com/mobile-audio/speaker-wire/kord-speaker-wire/sp/kord-ultra-flex-12-gauge-speaker-wire-100/

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1 hour ago, jimjimbo said:

For your purposes, go with the KnuKonceptz 12ga and the Sewell bananas you referenced above.

 

http://www.knukonceptz.com/mobile-audio/speaker-wire/kord-speaker-wire/sp/kord-ultra-flex-12-gauge-speaker-wire-100/

Sure am glad I joined the Klipsch community! You guys are a great help. Great advice. I see your referencing using 12ga wire. Buddy up top told me to use 14ga or at least.  I just don’t want to impede the speakers by using a lower gauge of wire. Do you recommended 12 ga for my r28f’s? And just running 16 to my 14 bookshelf’s,ceilings and centre? Thanks in advice. Sure do appreciate the help! 

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Your amp puts out 90wpc before it starts getting audibly distorted, which is definitely enough for you r28's to play very loud, probably too loud to stand in the room for an entire song.

 

I doubt you would notice any difference in sound quality between 18 to 10awg with those wattage numbers and those distances.  Banana plugs are great for ease of use, but bare wire to terminal is one less transfer through, again not audibly noticeable.

 

So I'm saying you will be fine in whatever you chose to do.

 

For the record I use RCA banana plugs from Menards, 12awg c2 monoprice for wire on everything in both my systems.  Keep in mind the 12awg is harder/larger to hide and doesn't bend/conform very well for running in tight places/corners.

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I use 12ga for everything, including Khorns, La Scalas, Chorus II's, etc.  The KnuKonceptz wire I referenced is very good and very flexible, easy to use.

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28 minutes ago, Byznasty said:

 I just don’t want to impede the speakers by using a lower gauge of wire.

Don't want to insult anyone here, but you do know that the lower the number gauge, the larger the wire?

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1 hour ago, wvu80 said:

 

In relative terms I don't consider this $$$ over the top by any stretch. Do some research on the Brilliance. Belden actually engineered this specifically to be a superb copper wire configuration. And I think Belden knows it way to wire configuration /materials / manufacturing. 

Bought a hundred foot roll and have lengths cut for each Klipsch placement. Non-terminated ends, direct copper to terminal. 

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52 minutes ago, jimjimbo said:

Don't want to insult anyone here, but you do know that the lower the number gauge, the larger the wire?

Yeah of course I do, I do some electrical wiring for work, I just want to have the best possible connection for my speakers that’s all. All of this to pretty new to me. I have car stereos and usually wired them all myself. 

Maybe don’t fully understand the impedance. 

Edited by Byznasty

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I got tired of asking the same question myself. I bought so many cables, and tossed them for larger/better/longer/specs/snake oil. I never have to worry about that again because for about $1.33 per foot, I bought a bulk roll of Marshall Sound Runner W8110. It is actually manufactured by MOGAMI. For me it saves me money because I know I won't be buying any more speaker cables.

 

Byznasty, in your case this would be considered overkill for your current situation. I am just pointing out the fact that, over time our needs change but our speaker cables do not need to.

 

Specs are 2-#10 AWG (238×34)   ---------that is 238 OFC copper stands folks, super high flex, and it lays and feels like 14AWG

0.22"×0.45"

Capacitance (pF/ft) 18.5

Inductance (µH/ft) 0.18

 

https://www.redco.com/Soundrunner-W8110.html

 

http://www.marshall-usa.com/cables/sound_runner/oxigen_free/low_loss/ofc.html

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1 hour ago, Byznasty said:
2 hours ago, jimjimbo said:

Don't want to insult anyone here, but you do know that the lower the number gauge, the larger the wire?

Yeah of course I do, I do some electrical wiring for work, I just want to have the best possible connection for my speakers that’s all. All of this to pretty new to me. I have car stereos and usually wired them all myself. 

Maybe don’t fully understand the impedance. 

Jim asked a good question.  Speaker wire size is counter-intuitive with larger AWG being smaller wire.  In an earlier post you said " I just don’t want to impede the speakers by using a lower gauge of wire."  I wasn't sure what you were saying either, but it was just some ambiguity in how you stated that.  Obviously, you've got it. 

 

Did you read what I quoted off the Monoprice site further upstream ^^^?  You can do the math with AWG sizes and speaker runs to figure out if the size of your wire is going to increase the impedance.

 

I'm not a big math person, I just use a decent Monoprice 12 AWG OFC wire so I don't have to worry about it.  Like others, I use banana plugs for convenience, not for any audio improvement.  Also, they look cool.  B)

 

I would also comment several people have weighed in suggesting more expensive 12 AWG wire than I use, about $30 per hundred feet.  The others are suggesting $50, and $100 per hundred feet.  Those are good quality wire sets and not crazy expensive, just a little more than I typically buy.

 

There are plenty of solid suggestions here and you do your homework.  You can't go wrong, it's all good.  You never regret buying quality.  :emotion-21:

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Have a couple old lamps you could rip the wire off of ? :lol:

 

I just use #14 from Monoprice, my electrons are not picky, good thing, plus it's short runs.

Way more wire than any amp I have can push in volts. I know volts are not everything but #14 is about 3 times the gauge of anything on a crossover.

 

I don't get the whole overkill thing with audio. :o:D

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7 minutes ago, dtel said:

I don't get the whole overkill thing with audio. :o:D

 

I bet you do.  :P

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2 hours ago, wvu80 said:

 

I bet you do.  :P

Ok I lied, I knew someone would catch me. :rolleyes:

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