edwinr Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Anyone see these reviews? http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/klipsch-heresy-iii-speaker-review-im-floored-and-here-is-why/ http://www.stereolifemagazine.com/reviews/item/1333-klipsch-heresy-iii-70th-anniversary-edition 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODS123 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 An interesting read. Clearly loves the H3's and who could blame him, it's a great speaker. I will say, though, his credibility is diminished a bit by his insistence that Heresy's be driven by expensive electronics with pricey interconnects and speaker cables. ..I think even PWK himself would say this is nonsense. He would point a finger at his BS button, so to speak. Audible differences between modern amplifiers/ receivers, etc.. that are functioning w/in their operating limits (which would be easy for Heresy's given their incredible efficiency) will be indistinguishable. Ditto with respect to cables, etc.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 2 hours ago, ODS123 said: Audible differences between modern amplifiers/ receivers, etc.. that are functioning w/in their operating limits (which would be easy for Heresy's given their incredible efficiency) will be indistinguishable. Ditto with respect to cables, etc.. This is unfortunately incorrect. I have three different sets of IcePower amps, two D3 receivers, standard A/B Yamaha receivers, Emotiva XPA amplifiers, and a Crown XTi amp. They all sound different. VERY EASILY distinguished from each other. Additionally when I compare my Carol Silver plated studio speaker cable to something like Sound King 12ga, it's also very easy to tell the difference. I won't go into the difference between the amplifiers but from the cable perspective the SoundKing muddies (opaque) the mid frequencies where the Carol sounds crystal clear like a window. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 2 hours ago, ODS123 said: Audible differences between modern amplifiers/ receivers, etc.. that are functioning w/in their operating limits (which would be easy for Heresy's given their incredible efficiency) will be indistinguishable. Ditto with respect to cables, etc.. I spoke with an audiophile once that claimed no two like amplifiers sounded the exact same due to parts variations.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 I'm skeptical that I could hear the difference between one amplifier and another in the same system and room setup with the loudness carefully adjusted (using a volt meter) to exactly the same loudness. This is assuming the amplifier manufacturer hasn't resorted to some kind of electronic trickery (filters or internal equalization) to make their usually very expensive amplifier stand out from the crowd. I reckon even a very slight loudness differential between two amplifiers will make one stand out or sound 'better' than the other. Just my $00.02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Whitlow Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 I bought my Heresys new in 1980. They are still essentially the same now. The only differences I see is the drivers are crammed together and the are made of MDF now instead of Baltic Birch. When my wife and I toured the factory I was surprised to see stacks of the plywood against the wall with a stenciled Hammer and Sickle in red on the edges of the plywood. MDF is cheaper than the imported Russian plywood and I’ve always been curious if they passed the savings to the consumer. I saw that the bass response is given down to 58hz. The bass on mine in 1978 was 50hz. My speakers are 40 years old and I’ve been through different amps, receivers, turntables, and CD players. They’re still going strong and sound as beautiful as they did when I took them out of their boxes. The Heresy is a fine speaker and a great investment.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODS123 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 41 minutes ago, Tony Whitlow said: The only differences I see is the drivers are crammed together and the are made of MDF now instead of Baltic Birch. When my wife and I toured the factory I was surprised to see stacks of the plywood against the wall with a stenciled Hammer and Sickle in red on the edges of the plywood. MDF is cheaper than the imported Russian plywood and I’ve always been curious if they passed the savings to the consumer. I saw that the bass response is given down to 58hz. The bass on mine in 1978 was 50hz. PSB, Paradigm, Vandersteen, KEF... indeed, darn near every audiophile speaker mfg uses MDF, and has been for a long long time. While the idea of using plywood has a nice artisanal appeal, the fact is that MDF is better because it's denser (less resonant), more consistent from sheet to sheet and takes cuts and routes more cleanly. And while it may be marginally less expensive, it is supposedly harder on cutting tools. As for pushing the drivers together, I'll defer to others to explain why. ..My hunch is this was done to improve the blending b/w the drivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebes Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 10 hours ago, pzannucci said: the Carol sounds crystal clear like a window. Maybe they are fooling you by actually building a cable to spec. In other words, maybe they may have actually built a cable that actually transfers the signal instead of attenuating it someway or another. IMO cables are stereo bunkum. They were designed to carry a signal not change it. Heresy's a wonderful speaker for what they are and have kept the company in clover through many a hard time. If they dug a little bit lower they would be unbeatable for their size. Construction. I'm a big fan of Baltic Birch. Adds a bit of juice or liveliness to the speakers, whereas MDF can be a buzz killer. I'll let both descriptive adjectives stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Whitlow Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Baltic Birch was used because of it’s consistency. There are no voids between the plys.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebes Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 11 minutes ago, Tony Whitlow said: Baltic Birch was used because of it’s consistency. There are no voids between the plys. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Yup. it also doesn't have the word density in its label. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Whitlow Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 PSB, Paradigm, Vandersteen, KEF... indeed, darn near every audiophile speaker mfg uses MDF, and has been for a long long time. While the idea of using plywood has a nice artisanal appeal, the fact is that MDF is better because it's denser (less resonant), more consistent from sheet to sheet and takes cuts and routes more cleanly. And while it may be marginally less expensive, it is supposedly harder on cutting tools. As for pushing the drivers together, I'll defer to others to explain why. ..My hunch is this was done to improve the blending b/w the drivers.The newer tweeters and squawkers are taller. The real estate of the motorboard required closer placement.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC39693 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Like Tony W. I am first owner of 1980 BB Heresy although I have replaced the X-over with one I built. They sound great. Will do work on inside of cabinet and wiring, but very happy even as they are, I also own 1984 Heresy with ALK universal and B&C woofers, lots of touch ups in the cabinet. They sound even better than 1980s, but cost me a lot more. Point is, Heresy are easy to work on, cost effective and very rewarding in their sound, easy to place and just plain fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 12 hours ago, thebes said: IMO cables are stereo bunkum. They were designed to carry a signal not change it. Glad that's your opinion and you are only partially correct (though will admit on the face of it, you should be correct). It is definitely speaker and system dependent. As you will find, all cables damage sound. You have to decide how much destruction and what destruction you will allow but you can notice the difference when you actually do compares between the two cables I mentioned along with some others I have not. Ditto for amps. For Amps... I liked my khorns with my Murano Audio P200s, strong bass but the bass was not quite right. Somewhat one note. Put the Bel Canto Ref 1000s on the khorns. More lean but more fidelity in the bass. Put those P200s on the KLF-30s and they sounded better with more tuneful bass than the Ref 1000s. Sad part is $500 vs $3500 on that match up. Definitely easily heard. Move in XPA-2 and not as good sounding overall compared to the Ref-1000s. Mind you if you didn't do a head to head swap, same room, same everything else, you wouldn't be able to notice the difference. I don't even want to throw the Yamaha or Panasonic receivers into this mix (or tubes) but again, if you didn't swap other equipment, you might not know what you are missing or want to listen to long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODS123 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 1 hour ago, pzannucci said: Glad that's your opinion and you are only partially correct (though will admit on the face of it, you should be correct). It is definitely speaker and system dependent. As you will find, all cables damage sound. You have to decide how much destruction and what destruction you will allow but you can notice the difference when you actually do compares between the two cables I mentioned along with some others I have not. Ditto for amps. Are you taking any measures whatsoever to rule out expectation bias?? As I've suggested before, use a different cable for L and R channels, play a mono song and push your speakers close to each other (Yes, you have K-horns. Still, get a friend, put 'em on some sliders, and this can be accomplished easily), now switch back and forth using your balance control. You really hear these big differences?? I highly doubt you will. As for amps.. Any modern day amp that is engineered to be linear, and is not driven beyond it's operating limits will sound identical to any other such amp. This is even true of comparing a well-engineered Tube amp to a SS amp. ..Don't believe me? Go to a McIntosh dealer and compare their SS amps to their Tube amps. ..If volumes are precisely matched (a MUST when comparing amps) you will not be able to tell them apart. that's a promise. I so wish PWK was around to weigh in on this. I would bet all my gear that he would say what I've said above is true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 13 hours ago, thebes said: Maybe they are fooling you by actually building a cable to spec. In other words, maybe they may have actually built a cable that actually transfers the signal instead of attenuating it someway or another. IMO cables are stereo bunkum. They were designed to carry a signal not change it. Heresy's a wonderful speaker for what they are and have kept the company in clover through many a hard time. If they dug a little bit lower they would be unbeatable for their size. Construction. I'm a big fan of Baltic Birch. Adds a bit of juice or liveliness to the speakers, whereas MDF can be a buzz killer. I'll let both descriptive adjectives stand. That's what I think too and when I want to be amused I go to Audiogon and read up on $20,000.00 speaker wires. But if you spend more it absolutely is better no matter the physics involved in direct relationship to the amount spent. I have never heard the Heresy III's but I have heard Heresy I's and II's. The II's sounded tinny to me and I pulled the drivers out and there sat a tiny driver on the mid range and a tiny driver on the Tweeter and way thin wires to everything. On my shelf is a pair of K-55-v + K-700 horn's and that pretty well sums it up. I would buy more I's at the right price but I have no interest in the II's and above. Birch yes MDF no. Let me put it this way. If I were to build for myself I would choose Birch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 14 hours ago, ODS123 said: PSB, Paradigm, Vandersteen, KEF... indeed, darn near every audiophile speaker mfg uses MDF, and has been for a long long time. While the idea of using plywood has a nice artisanal appeal, the fact is that MDF is better because it's denser (less resonant), more consistent from sheet to sheet and takes cuts and routes more cleanly. And while it may be marginally less expensive, it is supposedly harder on cutting tools. As for pushing the drivers together, I'll defer to others to explain why. ..My hunch is this was done to improve the blending b/w the drivers. As a guy who buys old and works on it and then sells it I can tell you MDF no matter what the manufacturing claims for it is inferior. Veneer picks out at the edges much easier as the MDF crumbles away from humidity or knocks. Screws holes do not have the the same durability. Drop an MDF cabinet and tell me about it. Yes I know this is not supposed to happen but it does. Good sharp cutting tools give great sharp routed shapes and you want life buy carbide and cut for a long time on MDF OR Baltic Birch. If all things are equal meaning Baltic Birch thickness the same as MDF is there a study that demonstrates the superiority of MDF? I would like to read it although it would be academic interest only since the mechanical aspects of MDF alienate me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshnich Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 57 minutes ago, ODS123 said: Are you taking any measures whatsoever to rule out expectation bias?? As I've suggested before, use a different cable for L and R channels, play a mono song and push your speakers close to each other (Yes, you have K-horns. Still, get a friend, put 'em on some sliders, and this can be accomplished easily), now switch back and forth using your balance control. You really hear these big differences?? I highly doubt you will. As for amps.. Any modern day amp that is engineered to be linear, and is not driven beyond it's operating limits will sound identical to any other such amp. This is even true of comparing a well-engineered Tube amp to a SS amp. ..Don't believe me? Go to a McIntosh dealer and compare their SS amps to their Tube amps. ..If volumes are precisely matched (a MUST when comparing amps) you will not be able to tell them apart. that's a promise. I so wish PWK was around to weigh in on this. I would bet all my gear that he would say what I've said above is true. Lucky for you that you cannot tell the difference between various amplifiers. If you cannot tell a class A from a class AB or a class D from a class A you can spend $19.00 on a chip amp ( I assume you believe there to be no difference between various chip amps) and be happy as a clam. For me part of the fun of this hobby is the differences between various components - including amps. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODS123 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 3 hours ago, Dave A said: I have never heard the Heresy III's but I have heard Heresy I's and II's. The II's sounded tinny to me and I pulled the drivers out and there sat a tiny driver on the mid range and a tiny driver on the Tweeter and way thin wires to everything. On my shelf is a pair of K-55-v + K-700 horn's and that pretty well sums it up. I would buy more I's at the right price but I have no interest in the II's and above. Birch yes MDF no. Let me put it this way. If I were to build for myself I would choose Birch. It i's totally predictable that when a newer version of a speaker is introduced there will be those who claim that all improvements ended w/ the particular version they own. It's as if the crack team of engineers who made their great speaker suddenly became incompetent just as they were designing the successor. Or that the engineering focus abruptly changed from improving performance to only cutting costs. I recall reading this when Vandersteen went from 3A to 3Asig, Paradigm from Studio 100 ver4 to 5, Paradigm S8 v2 to v3 (w/ Berrylium Tweeter), and so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODS123 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 5 hours ago, Dave A said: As a guy who buys old and works on it and then sells it I can tell you MDF no matter what the manufacturing claims for it is inferior. So why then does nearly every high-end speaker mfg use MDF? Are you saying Vandersteen, PSB, Revel, KEF, Paradigm, etc.. would all be better speakers if they used Birch Plywood? If all it took to gain an audible advantage over a competitor was to use ply instead of MDF, I suspect they'd be doing it - the incremental cost not withstanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebes Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 They all be better speakers if they had Paul Klipsch design their products. Baltic Birch. Me likeum! Oh and MDF is about 40% cheaper than Baltic Birch, so gee, I wonder why they use it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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