AVR powefulenough for my Klpisch Reference Surround Sound

[Speiro1]

Hi All

 

i am new to Klipsch.  I have heard great things and am looking to buy the following;

2- RF-62II for left and right side of the tv

    97dB 500w 8 Ohms

2 - RB 61 II for surround left and right

     95dB 400w 8 Ohms

2 - RS 62 II rear left and right 

     97dB 600 w 8 ohms 

1 -  RC 62 Ii

   98dB 600W 8 ohms

 

First question I have is the Watts don’t match up is this an issue when trying to get peak performance from each speaker.  I am trying to get the most out of the set so I want make sure that an AVR will be able to compensate for the different Watts and apply the proper wattage to keep them all level.

 

Second question the dBs are not exactly the same will this be an issue when gaining peak per menace?  I hear that optimal dB is 107 for THX which I would like to achieve.  If the ohms don’t match up will the AVR get the higher Oms speaker to 107 while the lower ones will only go to 105?  Or, will the AVR bring them all to an equal playing field? 

 

Third question.  The speakers I chose I think are all a set so the watts and dBs should all be compatible please let me know if I am wrong.  If necessary please make a suggestions to the list of groceries above as I have only purchased the RF-62 II, so this is my base line.

 

please suggests and AVR that has the power to achieve the 107dBs I am trying to obtain.  My budget is about 700,.  I will need convincing to raise my beget so please let me know if this is not sifficiemt. 

 

Thank you in advance for any help you can provide.  Everything I know is from google and YouTube so feel free to educate me on any of the above.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[willland]

@Speiro1,

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

Nice setup with the all 6.5" woofers throughout the room.  My RF-63 setup is all 6.5 also.  Not really a huge thing just kind of cool to me.

 

What size/type room are we talking and how far is your main seating position from the RC-62?

 

Where are you geographically located?

 

Bill

[rebuy]

If you want to Kill your Ears----play speakers at 107.

70 to 80 DB is pretty loud.

[wvu80]

A quick note:  The RS-62 II typically do the Surround SIDE L/R duties placed slightly above the ears and to the rear.  These are di-poles and are designed to diffuse the sound not directly to your ears.

 

The RB-61 typically are used for REAR, L/R.  These are bookshelves and are directional.

[wvu80]

10 hours ago, Speiro1 said:

Second question the dBs are not exactly the same will this be an issue when gaining peak per menace?  

 

I hear that optimal dB is 107 for THX which I would like to achieve.  

 

If the ohms don’t match up will the AVR get the higher Oms speaker to 107 while the lower ones will only go to 105?  Or, will the AVR bring them all to an equal playing field? 

Let your new AVR do all the work.  I think $700 is a good price range.  It will have Audyssey or its own room correction software built-in.  That will enable all your speakers to play nice with each other.

 

Specifically Audyssey will match them to play at THX Reference level which is 82 db.   This varies a little from AVR to AVR.  The 107 db you mentioned will be the peak db's, otherwise known as dynamic headroom.  For example e everybody is sitting around the campfire talking at 80 db then BOOM!, explosion rocks you at 107 db. 

 

I would advise you to get as much power as you can, 100 wpc being the minimum.  Check the specs carefully because a LOT of manufacturers these days list power with ONE channel driven, and if you look deeper they will list TWO channels driven.  Not much better if you ask me and be sure to check the THD levels, as some list power at TEN PERCENT distortion. You usually want less than 1% distortion,

 

Rarely will you see the power advertised with ALL channels driven.  Since you want to drive 7 channels an advertised 125 wpc system typically will not give you more than about 55 wpc, all channels driven.  That is enough power to make Klipsch speakers play loud but you will lose dynamic headroom, you'll lose punch.

 

Others will weigh in on specific AVR's that fit your budget and need.  I know what I have and how well it works but I don't know first-hand about the other brands.  I have a Marantz SR6011 (about $1000 new, last year's model but you can still find them) and an Onkyo TX NR717 (about $500 new in 2014, no longer available).

[K5SS]

I had that exact speaker setup and they were wonderful! I powered them with a Pioneer Elite SC-97 and my ears would stop me way before the volume knob ever did. 

 

How big is your room?

 

If you add a sub or two, and cross your speakers over at 80hz, most modern high quality receivers will drive them just fine in most rooms. 

[Speiro1]

Hi All thanks for all the info.  My room is 20 x 30.  My tv is centered on one of the 20, walls.  The back of my sofa is 9, away from the tv.  I was thinking about setting up the surround sound and rear speakers on pedestals and placing  them 12” away from either side and behind the  sofa.    I would like to have a 7.2 setup so I will be adding subs but I have not picked those out yet. 

 

WVY80 thanks for correcting my placement of the RB and RS speakers I guess I had them swapped.

Edited March 26, 2018 by Speiro1

[Speiro1]

Oh one more question.  I have been reading about external amps and crossovers is any of this necessary if I get a good AVR?

[willland]

1 hour ago, Speiro1 said:

My room is 20 x 30.

Big room.

 

1 hour ago, Speiro1 said:

The back of my sofa is 9, away from the tv.

Not too far away so desired SPL's should be obtainable.

 

1 hour ago, Speiro1 said:

Oh one more question.  I have been reading about external amps and crossovers is any of this necessary if I get a good AVR?

I am a huge proponent for external amps but a near flagship AVR should do the trick.  As long as you get an AVR with a minimum stereo preouts, you could add an amp in the future if desired.

 

1 hour ago, Speiro1 said:

I would like to have a 7.2 setup so I will be adding subs but I have not picked those out yet. 

Big room requires good sized subwoofers(minimum 12" and multiples) if you want to pressurize your room for the smash'm up movies.  If possible go with 15" subs but there are some quality 13"(JLAudio, SVS) subs out there that can hold their own.

 

Bill

[JohnA]

EVERY AVR will drive those speakers to reference levels unless you live in a warehouse.  Concentrate on quality. 

 

10x the power is a 10 dB difference, that sounds twice as loud.  10 watts will drive those mains to 107 dB at 1 meter.  Two mains is twice as loud, another 10 dB, at one meter.  Each doubling of distance reduces the level by 6 dB, so 10 watts into just the mains will get you 105 dB at 4 meters/13 feet.  You also have center and surrounds. 

 

Power ratings on speakers are the power they will *absorb*.  Like how tight you can blow up the balloon before it pops.  Ignore that.  It is the least meaningful, most useless speaker spec.  Never push until you hear distress or brittleness. 

 

Your subwoofer(s) should be -3 dB at 20 Hz and be able to hit 115+ dB in your room.  Don't scrimp. 

 

 

[Speiro1]

Hi All

 

i found the Marantz SR6011 which I believe is last years model for a good price.  Below are the specs.  This AVR was recommended in this thread and appears to have everything I need to power my system.  Please let me know if it you disagree with this purchase.  Thank you in advance for you help.

 

Power and Processing:

• 9-channel amplifier
• 110 watts per channel into 8 ohms (20-20,000 Hz) at 0.08% THD, with 2 channels driven
• Dolby® and DTS® surround sound decoding
  • Dolby Atmos and DTS:X for more enveloping home theater sound
  • supports 5.1.2, 5.1.4, and 7.1.2 Atmos setups
• video upconversion (up to 1080p and 4K) for analog and HDMI sources
• Audyssey "Platinum" speaker calibration and system optimization includes:
  • MultEQ® XT32 auto setup and room calibration delivers balanced, dynamic sound with enhanced surround performance for as many as eight seating positions (expandable to 32 seating positions with a professional installer)
  • Audyssey Dynamic Volume mode to keep listening levels steady
  • Audyssey Dynamic EQ for fuller sound at lower listening levels
  • Audyssey Low Frequency Containment reduces the amount of bass that bleeds into other rooms
  • Audyssey Sub EQ HT provides individual calibration for dual subwoofers, for even bass response throughout the room

Audio Performance Features:

• Marantz's Hyper Dynamic Amplifier Module (HDAM) offers improved dynamic range and detail while reducing noise
• current feedback circuit for accurate, natural sound at all volume levels
• Pure Direct mode turns off unused circuitry for cleaner audio signals
• bi-amp capability with compatible front speakers by reassigning "height" channels

Connections:

• HDMI 2.0a audio/video switching: 8 in (includes 1 front-panel input), 2 out
  • HDCP 2.2 technology ensures compatibility with 4K Ultra HD sources and TVs (all HDMI inputs and outputs)
  • HDR-compatible for extended picture contrast and brightness with compatible 4K TVs and HDR-encoded content
  • supports HDR10; Dolby Vision compatibility via future firmware update
• component video switching: 2 in, 1 out
• composite video switching: 4 in, 1 out (includes front-panel input)
• digital audio inputs: 2 optical and 2 coaxial
• 5 analog stereo RCA audio inputs
• phono input for connecting a turntable
• 7.1-channel preamp inputs
• 11.2-channel preamp outputs include outputs for 2 powered subwoofers
• front-panel USB port
• outputs for 11 speakers (Front L/R, Center, Surround L/R, Surround Back L/R, Height1 L/R, Height2 L/R)
  • receiver can power a maximum of 9 channels at once
  • Height speakers can be reassigned for Zone 2 or bi-amping compatible front speakers
• Ethernet port for wired network connection
• support for third-party control systems by Control4 and Crestron for home automation
• 1/4" headphone output
• detachable power cord

[JohnA]

That should be a great choice!

[wvu80]

17 hours ago, Speiro1 said:

i found the Marantz SR6011 which I believe is last years model for a good price.

I have the 6011.  It is waaay more AVR than I can use.  It will support 5.2.4 if you want to run Atmos.  It has 9 discrete on-board amps.  If you add a two channel amp you can run 7.2.4.  It sounds great with Klipsch and is very musical, has a nice smooth sound without a hint of HF harshness.

 

The 125 wpc is much stronger than  the 125 wpc on my Onk 717.  Throw all the speakers at it you want, the Marantz 6011 will not disappoint.

 

Welcome to the Klipsch Forum, you are off to a great start!

 

It takes horns to play horns.  In your honor, Happy Ending. 

 

 

[Tony Whitlow]

Hi All
 
i am new to Klipsch.  I have heard great things and am looking to buy the following;
2- RF-62II for left and right side of the tv
    97dB 500w 8 Ohms
2 - RB 61 II for surround left and right
     95dB 400w 8 Ohms
2 - RS 62 II rear left and right 
     97dB 600 w 8 ohms 
1 -  RC 62 Ii
   98dB 600W 8 ohms
 
First question I have is the Watts don’t match up is this an issue when trying to get peak performance from each speaker.  I am trying to get the most out of the set so I want make sure that an AVR will be able to compensate for the different Watts and apply the proper wattage to keep them all level.
 
Second question the dBs are not exactly the same will this be an issue when gaining peak per menace?  I hear that optimal dB is 107 for THX which I would like to achieve.  If the ohms don’t match up will the AVR get the higher Oms speaker to 107 while the lower ones will only go to 105?  Or, will the AVR bring them all to an equal playing field? 
 
Third question.  The speakers I chose I think are all a set so the watts and dBs should all be compatible please let me know if I am wrong.  If necessary please make a suggestions to the list of groceries above as I have only purchased the RF-62 II, so this is my base line.
 
please suggests and AVR that has the power to achieve the 107dBs I am trying to obtain.  My budget is about 700,.  I will need convincing to raise my beget so please let me know if this is not sifficiemt. 
 
Thank you in advance for any help you can provide.  Everything I know is from google and YouTube so feel free to educate me on any of the above.
 
 
 
 
 
 

These are very efficient speakers, meaning you don’t need a lot of power for them to get very LOUD! I would suggest an AVR of 100 watts.


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[Speiro1]

On ‎3‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 12:06 AM, wvu80 said:

I have the 6011.  It is waaay more AVR than I can use.  It will support 5.2.4 if you want to run Atmos.  It has 9 discrete on-board amps.  If you add a two channel amp you can run 7.2.4.  It sounds great with Klipsch and is very musical, has a nice smooth sound without a hint of HF harshness.

 

The 125 wpc is much stronger than  the 125 wpc on my Onk 717.  Throw all the speakers at it you want, the Marantz 6011 will not disappoint.

 

Welcome to the Klipsch Forum, you are off to a great start!

 

It takes horns to play horns.  In your honor, Happy Ending. 

 

 

 

Thanks wvu.  Would you bi amp the font left and right?  I see that the Marantz can do this. Also I was looking at the Klipsch RC-64 II and the RP-450C.  I was going to go for the RC-64 ii because you could bi amp it, but most everything I read on the bi amping the center says its a waste.  I saw that it have 4 subs so I thought the bi amp would really make them pop.  Taking Bi Amping out of the picture for the center I think the RP-450C would be sufficient would you agree? 

[Ceptorman]

No need to bi-amp any of these speakers, especially the center. With the RF62ll, the RC64ll would match up timbre wise better than the RP450c.

[Speiro1]

8 minutes ago, Ceptorman said:

No need to bi-amp any of these speakers, especially the center. With the RF62ll, the RC64ll would match up timbre wise better than the RP450c.

Ok so I had to look up timbre because I never heard of it before.  I told you am new to this.  I think you meant RC 62II, but I get the point.  Well the RC62II is considerably cheaper than the RC64ii so I am go that way for now.  Thanks. 

[wvu80]

1 hour ago, Speiro1 said:

 

Thanks wvu.  Would you bi amp the font left and right?  I see that the Marantz can do this.

 

You and I are thinking along the same lines.  I have my RF-83's bi-amped as the 6011 supports it directly in through the OSD menu.  I think I can hear more clarity in the mid-range but it is subtle at best. 

 

 

Quote

 

 

Also I was looking at the Klipsch RC-64 II and the RP-450C.  I was going to go for the RC-64 ii because you could bi amp it, but most everything I read on the bi amping the center says its a waste. 

 

 

I have the RC-64 running off the Marantz as well.  Those dual posts are not for bi-amping, but bi-wiring. It is he same story, I do believe there is a measurable improvement but it is really hard to hear the difference, if any.  I have my RC-64 bi-wired as well. 

 

I ran a pair of wires OUT from the AVR Center connectors to the HF binding posts using banana plugs which can be piggybacked.  Remove the metal connectors, then piggyback another set of wires from the same AVR output to the LF inputs of the Center.

 

I have not heard the RP-450C.

 

Quote

 

I saw that it have 4 subs so I thought the bi amp would really make them pop.  Taking Bi Amping out of the picture for the center I think the RP-450C would be sufficient would you agree? 

 

I would not buy the RC-64 for the sole reason it can be bi-wired.  It would be helpful if someone could weigh-in and describe the differences in sound between the two.  I am a fan of "buy the best center speaker you can afford."

 

The RC-64 is the TOTL of Klipsch center speakers so I would expect it to sound the best, or at least be able to run more effortlessly at a higher SPL.  I happen to like the sound of woofers in the 6.5 to 7" range for center duty so the RC-64 is a better fit for kind of sound I know I like. 

+++

 

So, if bi-wiring and bi-amping is useless, why would I do it?  Based on my experience with MY AVR and MY speakers I believe there is an improvement in sound, however small. 

 

I am a believer that a lot of small improvements add up to a larger cumulative improvement.  Not all AVR's and not all speakers respond the same to bi-amping/wiring.  FYI the majority opinion is that bi-amping/wiring doesn't help the sound.  Just so you know, mine is the minority opinion. 

 

The other reason is I do it because I can.  I am not using the extra channels for anything else and the Marantz supports it, so why not?  The only extra cost is some extra speaker wire which I already had laying around the house. 

 

Bi-wiring and bi-amping is a luxury I can afford. 

[garyrc]

The Marantz has Audyssey.  Audyssey can range from no improvement to a great improvement.  At my house it greatly improves my sound.  The key is careful, patient set-up.  Take 30 to 45 minutes out and read this carefully: "Audyssey FAQ Linked Here".

  It is much better than any AVR manual I've seen in dealing with Audyssey.  I'd forget the professional installer.  Some may be fine, but some are < 30 day wonders who don't understand Audyssey.  If you read the link, you may be able to do a better job.  

 

There is Reference and Preference.  Almost everyone on the "Official Audyssey Forum" at AVS, first sets up Audyssey for Reference, which gives you a relatively smooth curve to start with, corrected in the frequency domain and partially corrected in the time domain, and then makes a few changes toward their personal Preference.  Most people turn up the subwoofer.  This must be done AFTER running Audyssey because if it is done before, Audyssey will turn it right down again.  The reasons for turning up the subwoofer after Audyssey calibration are several, but the main one is that research at Harman and elsewhere has shown that 1) Most people don't like "flat" and prefer a room curve that is about 9 or 10 dB higher in the lowest bass than it is in the highest treble, and 2) Most people, when presented with a variety of curves to listen to in a double blind test, think the above described curve is "flat" or "natural."

 

It is easier and better to start with a smooth ("flat") curve like Audyssey gives you, then tilt it to preference, than to start with the kinky

room curve most people have without Audyssey or other room correction -- unless you like kinky.

 

In the graph below, the relatively smooth line is the theoretical ideal depiction of the curve most people prefer, on the average.  The kinky curves are those of actual speakers in rooms, adjusted to resemble and follow the preferred theoretical curve.  No real curve is smooth, but the Audyssey curve you get, in your room, after being adjusted for preference, should be smoother than this one, IMO.

 

For more info on "Flat" v.s. not Flat, read "Down With Flat" by J. Gordon Holt, the founder of Stereophile in their archive, on their website.

[Speiro1]

Hi All

 

i just received my Marantz SR6011.  I allowed the ABR to run its speaker set up.  Once completed it sounded good but I went into the setting to find it set the front and center speakers to “Large”.  Everywhere I read that this is wrong so I set the speakers to “Small”.  I was very disappointed with the results after changing the speakers from Large to Small.  I also read that the crossover should be set to 80htz.  I know my front and center speakers have response of about 50htz on the low end, should I adjust the crossovers to the lowest setting of each individual speaker or put them all at the THX remended 80htz? Thank you.