Zen Traveler Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 1 hour ago, richieb said: 1 hour ago, T2K said: I guess the question then is how did the crooks get there? Could that have been avoided? How? Keith === “how did the crooks get there”? Well, they were elected by good folks like you and me. Probably thought we were voting for the lesser of two or three evils. And I quote “won’t get fooled again”. Oh yes, yes we will — I'll be honest with you, I think the folks who say they voted that way didn't really consider the candidates or the actual issues....If they did they were single issue voters or spent too much time watching tv. Again, that's my take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted September 1, 2018 Author Share Posted September 1, 2018 4 minutes ago, Zen Traveler said: Honest answer? The shear amount of propaganda generated by folks against one side overwhelmed the media system, social and mass. That's my take. It used to be that you needed some sizable investment to become "the media." Now, all you need is Wordpress and time to promote your blog. I don't think "the media" is a victim here. I think it is now casting a wider net to low-budget, rumor-mongering ideologues. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Jeff Matthews said: The grand irony is if you cop-out of the game and stop voting, you risk people viewing you as unintelligent or crazy. So, if you want to look smart and logical, go and vote! This is an absolutely outrageous line given how much time I wasted respectfully arguing against the candidate you supported.....Hippo farts and worshiping sports figures indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted September 1, 2018 Author Share Posted September 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, Zen Traveler said: This is an absolutely outrageous line given how much time I wasted respectfully arguing against the candidate you supported.....Hippo farts and worshiping sports figures indeed. I don't know. While you might think my vote matters to you, that doesn't mean it has to matter to me. You just want it to matter to me. In fact, you want it to matter to me so much that you are convinced I am wrong. 😉 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Jeff Matthews said: Fake news has become routine from both sides in the press; the people simply are influenced by it. Bullshit, jeff. Google "Fake News" and see who is using that term and get back with us. Otoh, I absolutely know when our government starting talking about it and showed you that prior the current *group*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 1 hour ago, MyOwn said: For me...It all boils down to UGLY.... Skin color and belief is driving the Ugly in our world... Not in my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted September 1, 2018 Author Share Posted September 1, 2018 1 minute ago, Zen Traveler said: Bullshit, jeff. Google "Fake News" and see who is using that term and get back with us. You are stuck on words and phrases. You know, as well as I know, that the media on both sides openly displays bias and reports "news" which is dubious at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 10 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said: 14 minutes ago, Zen Traveler said: Honest answer? The shear amount of propaganda generated by folks against one side overwhelmed the media system, social and mass. That's my take. It used to be that you needed some sizable investment to become "the media." Now, all you need is Wordpress and time to promote your blog. I don't think "the media" is a victim here. I think it is now casting a wider net to low-budget, rumor-mongering ideologues. 😨 Jeff! I totally agree and what I've tried to point out to you that if you do the research you will find that the vast amount of what you are talking about DID happen and by a limited number of individual groups, all with the same motive. We can joke about collusion but we both know insofar as the political discussion we can't have it matters if it was conspiracy...Actually the bigger picture is in regard to WHO was doing it and I exposed that prior to the election and feel our government has already issued reports on that....Btw, so did the UK government recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 8 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said: You are stuck on words and phrases. You know, as well as I know, that the media on both sides openly displays bias and reports "news" which is dubious at best. I don't agree with that. I think the mistake you make is thinking there are only two kinds of media and I contend only one flavor promotes that. Again, BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted September 1, 2018 Author Share Posted September 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, Zen Traveler said: 😨 Jeff! I totally agree and what I've tried to point out to you that if you do the research you will find that the vast amount of what you are talking about DID happen and by a limited number of individual groups, all with the same motive. We can joke about collusion but we both know insofar as the political discussion we can't have it matters if it was conspiracy...Actually the bigger picture is in regard to WHO was doing it and I exposed that prior to the election and feel our government has already issued reports on that....Btw, so did the UK government recently. Here's the thing. Just because influence comes from abroad doesn't make it illegal, per se. Think, "Al-Jazeera," for example. Once you admit some type of foreign influence is proper, now you have to decide whether "fake news" should be made illegal in some way. While it would be nice not to have "fake news," who will the "News Police" be? Can you imagine how corrupt an agency that would be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted September 1, 2018 Author Share Posted September 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, Zen Traveler said: I think the mistake you make is thinking there are only two kinds of media and I contend only one flavor promotes that. I know you do, but if I show you examples, the thread goes political. Are you sure you can't think of plenty of examples of rumor-mongering from both sides in the press? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 1 hour ago, richieb said: === I’m already viewed as unintelligent and crazy. And I’m too old give a shyte. I’ve got nothing to lose — Wanna bet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 4 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said: 4 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said: Here's the thing. Just because influence comes from abroad doesn't make it illegal, per se. Think, "Al-Jazeera," for example. You are not getting the full picture. Al-Jazeera is a legitimate new organization that didn't engage in a foreign espionage campaign. Otoh, what is coming out with how e-mails were stolen and then use in a mass propaganda campaign came out almost two years ago. Those reports have been made and there have been criminal incitements of Russians. This was a MASS weaponized propaganda effort that is being exposed in many countries. Here is the recently released UK Parliament report: https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmcumeds/363/36304.htm 4 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said: Once you admit some type of foreign influence is proper, now you have to decide whether "fake news" should be made illegal in some way. While it would be nice not to have "fake news," who will the "News Police" be? Can you imagine how corrupt an agency that would be? I totally agree with you and am witnessing first hand that Facebook is trying to do something about it--It's NOT going to be government leading the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 11 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said: 14 minutes ago, Zen Traveler said: I think the mistake you make is thinking there are only two kinds of media and I contend only one flavor promotes that. I know you do, but if I show you examples, the thread goes political. Are you sure you can't think of plenty of examples of rumor-mongering from both sides in the press? You keep saying both sides and I gather you mean FoxNews and everyone else? Ironic you say that because I pretty much only post things from Fox on my facebook account and try and get supporters debating those or the President's twitter feed--No takers yet and I find that very strange.... Insofar as your personal beef with all other media other than Fox I suggest that it's not a real dichotomy. There are stories on every media outlet that may cross the line but they ARE NOT the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 I would like to make a comment that is not political. My concern is that of suffering. Many will suffer in the next few decades unlike anything this country has ever seen. Yet no one sees it coming or, it seems, doesn't care. I just can't ( not don't-can't) understand it. Everyone has their biases and or prejudices. I know I do. But the one thing I never do is to let my biases/prejudices get in the way of my decisions that will affect myself in order to hurt/deny someone else. Those someone else's are me. Our current situation was born of prejudice. We'll Many will suffer for it. Keith 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEH Synergy Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 "history repeats itself" Survival of the fittest. We are moving towards it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 "History does not repeat itself, but it sure does rhyme" ---- Samuel Clemens aka Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 13 hours ago, Jeff Matthews said: While it would be nice not to have "fake news," who will the "News Police" be? Can you imagine how corrupt an agency that would be? Oddly enough, a very corrupt person just recently suggested we do just that, using a first grader's logic of "fair." 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 15 hours ago, Jeff Matthews said: I don't know that I would call that "rigged." Fake news has become routine from both sides in the press; the people simply are influenced by it. I certainly don't agree with that, though I'm amazed how much of Fox News is just propaganda fakery. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted September 1, 2018 Author Share Posted September 1, 2018 1 hour ago, LarryC said: I certainly don't agree with that, though I'm amazed how much of Fox News is just propaganda fakery. I really think if you start peeling most news journal articles, layer-by-layer and claim-by-claim, you will find a lot of it is made-up speculation and opinion based on a hodge-podge of facts, some of which are unsubstantiated and merely repeated without citation to a reliable, original source. Try it yourself when you read articles. Sentence-by-sentence; claim-by-claim; ask yourself if it is substantiated or speculation mixed with bias. Pay close attention to each material word and phrase. Don't just skim for the gist; read carefully for the details. When facts are cited, look to the cited material and on down the chain. Watch how the chain stops with nothing reliable. Watch, too, how facts are distorted and contorted as they are presented from article to article. I don't think God looked down on mankind and said, "I will make a breed of liars and call them 'Conservatives.'" Human conditioning is a very interesting subject. I had a conversation related to human conditioning yesterday with some friends, and it was over the latest sports bra controversy. Curiously, a sports bra is thought to be less provocative than a regular bra, much like a bikini is thought to be less provocative than underwear. We all know these are virtually the same, so how are we conditioned to perceive them as being vastly different? If you can enter the court wearing a sports bra, why not a regular bra? Why are men's nipples okay for public display, but not women's. WTF???? (lol) But alas.... When you are told repeatedly by sources you trust that things are "X", you actually start perceiving "X." I think this applies to news as well. We are all conditioned to believe things, and the more interesting challenge is not so much finding evidence of conditioning in other people, but to find it in ourselves. I find it all the time. I just don't know what to believe anymore when it comes to all the latest hot topics and how they are reported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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