Political Advertising ... sick of it?

[Zen Traveler]

13 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

It's easy to hurl criticisms like these, but facts are becoming harder and harder to come by in the media. 

Don't follow the media follow the politicians and elected officials themselves. You can follow them on twitter and when it comes to national leaders they are also having news conferences and appearing on tv all of the time,

13 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

Speaking of the media's influence, why isn't it equally "unbelievable" that some of us spend more time debating the Russian media's influence and picking sides?  Just wondering...

If you are only focusing on Russian media then you are missing the big picture all together--It's about their government sponsoring a weaponized propaganda campaign and if you really want to do some research see where the term "Fake News" came from in the current dialog--It wasn't from the POTUSA and to help you out google "Clint Watts and Fake News."

13 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

 

And oh, what if American media outlets engaged in similar local propaganda campaigns using the same techniques as the Russians did? 

They actually did and it amplified what RT News and Sputnik were found to have done and that is also what you will find researching the subject and why it's important to be aware of how it was spread.

13 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

 

Would that be permitted free speech, or would you suggest putting them on the Magnitsky list, too?  I'd be curious to see how you'd have our government police the US media.

 

 

You have asked me this question countless times and the answer is still the same--They don't and we should let the entities fight it out for themselves to be known as the ones who can deliver fact-checked articles  to be spread on their network--Facebook is already doing it and exposing those "Fake News" outlets.

[K5SS]

Life has definitely been too easy for most in the US. That’s why we fight and protest about insignificant things that shouldn’t even be in the local news.

 

I would mention a few of these insignificant things but I would hate to send a few people here to their safe spaces. Evergreen College comes to mind though..

 

Great empires are not maintained by timidity.

Tacitus

[Jeff Matthews]

5 minutes ago, Zen Traveler said:

Quote

Would that be permitted free speech, or would you suggest putting them on the Magnitsky list, too?  I'd be curious to see how you'd have our government police the US media.

 

 

You have asked me this question countless times and the answer is still the same--They don't and we should let the entities fight it out for themselves to be known as the ones who can deliver fact-checked articles  to be spread on their network--Facebook is already doing it and exposing those "Fake News" outlets.

So industry should police itself?  Is that a fair takeaway of your opinion?

[Zen Traveler]

7 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

So industry should police itself?  Is that a fair takeaway of your opinion?

I'm not sure what the answer is but I don't think it should be left up to government to do the censoring. Otoh, I think their investigation into the 2016 election was very enlightening and a wakeup call to those that don't want the government involved....Like I said, it seems Facebook is doing something about it and we will see where that goes. There is still some folks posting "Fake News," and forwarded bot posts, but those are easy to distinguish and point out. My   FB friends are starting to learn how to differentiate them just like I did with you and Breitbart.  {EDIT: In fact, Breitbart has a disclaimer on it with Facebook exposing their transgressions.} 

[Jeff Matthews]

1 minute ago, Zen Traveler said:

I'm not sure what the answer is but I don't think it should be left up to government to do the censoring. Otoh, I think their investigation into the 2016 election was very enlightening and a wakeup call to those that don't want the government involved....Like I said, it seems Facebook is doing something about it and we will see where that goes. There is still some folks posting "Fake News," and forwarded bot posts, but those are easy to distinguish and point out and my friends are starting to learn how to differentiate them just like I did with you and Breitbart.  

That's what I think, too!  Awareness is the better approach - even if that means there will remain multitudes of ignorant and misinformed people.  Conduct all the investigations you want, but two things:  (1) realize that reporting on the investigations will often contain spin and fabrications, and (2) government needs to stay out of censorship at almost all costs.  Once the regulations start coming out, witch hunts will abound within the press, all the way down to the village idiot with a blog.

[oldtimer]

20 minutes ago, K5SS said:

Life has definitely been too easy for most in the US. That’s why we fight and protest about insignificant things that shouldn’t even be in the local news.

 

I would mention a few of these insignificant things but I would hate to send a few people here to their safe spaces. Evergreen College comes to mind though..

 

Great empires are not maintained by timidity.

Tacitus

Too easy?  No.  We earned it.

[Jeff Matthews]

3 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

Too easy?  No.  We earned it.

 

"You didn't earn that."  😜

[oldtimer]

yes we did.  And "we" built it, through tax dollars in a community effort.  That was the point.

 

 

Regarding separating the lies from the truth, the old saw that the market would take care of it does not apply.  Certain factions of "industry" will not police themselves either.  The money behind fringe outlets is not in that particular business to make money from it.  It is clearly an expense to them in furtherance of a different goal.  

 

[K5SS]

14 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

Too easy?  No.  We earned it.

 

Agreed.

 

Didn’t mean for it to come across as the path was easy, just that memories fade.

 

My genaration has had it pretty easy so many don’t know what real struggle is, myself included. I think this is why most great civilians fall. 

 

My family has a long line of military service so I respect the path those who sacrificed all did to pave this smooth surface we stroll on. We just can’t allow people to take this for granted. 

 

 

[T2K]

36 minutes ago, K5SS said:

My genaration has had it pretty easy so many don’t know what real struggle is

 

I don't know what your generation is but it's somewhat comical that voter turnout is lower among younger voters at this time when their future is pretty much on the line. Snooze/lose.

 

Keith

 

[LarryC]

"I don't know what your generation is, but .... "

 

Maybe about the same as yours (or mine), within a generation or two standard deviation.

[T2K]

18 minutes ago, LarryC said:

"I don't know what your generation is, but .... "

 

Maybe about the same as yours (or mine), within a generation or two standard deviation.

 

I'm of that generation that is ruining the future of future generations by taking advantage of all the entitlement programs. All it took was working for 44 years. None of it was easy though. But you knew that ... GrandPaw. (no smiley to appease oldtimer)

 

Keith

 

[garyrc]

2 hours ago, T2K said:

I'm of that generation that is ruining the future of future generations by taking advantage of all the entitlement programs. All it took was working for 44 years. None of it was easy though. But you knew that ... GrandPaw. (no smiley to appease oldtimer)

 

 

Me, too.  I appreciate the irony and humor of your statement.  Still, I would prefer that the programs always be called earned benefits, just to remind people that's what they are.  These earned benefits were part of the contract -- unless there wasn't a meeting of the minds, and the take away was planned all along.   We must now work to change the way money flows so that we and future generations are treated fairly. 

[Zen Traveler]

11 hours ago, Jeff Matthews said:

(1) realize that reporting on the investigations will often contain spin and fabrications,

Agreed but pay attention to who wins the literary awards for their reporting and writing about the events.

11 hours ago, Jeff Matthews said:

and (2) government needs to stay out of censorship at almost all costs. 

I agree as well, but when Government launches an investigation and issues reports those should go into the factual record and considered over media sources. 

[Jeff Matthews]

7 minutes ago, Zen Traveler said:

Quote

and (2) government needs to stay out of censorship at almost all costs. 

I agree as well, but when Government launches an investigation and issues reports those should go into the factual record and considered over media sources. 

Yep.  However, where we might differ is that I see nothing criminal in spreading this fake news.  I do not think "fake" news should be criminalized because it can lead us down a perilous path.

[Zen Traveler]

10 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

Yep.  However, where we might differ is that I see nothing criminal in spreading this fake news. 

There is the catch--In 2016 no one realize the extent propaganda could be disseminated and how their Newsfeeds worked on social media.Several vast propaganda campaigns went on under the radar--Now that it's exposed and the industry is trying to do better due-diligence  I don't think it should be criminal either...That said, it should be exposed and  I try to shine a light on it while debating important issues until the facts stand on their own....

Quote

I do not think "fake" news should be criminalized because it can lead us down a perilous path.

And to come full circle, I agree. Otoh, fact-checking is easier today than it's ever been and conscientious truth-seekers can separate fact from fiction.

[Jeff Matthews]

10 minutes ago, Zen Traveler said:

Quote

I do not think "fake" news should be criminalized because it can lead us down a perilous path.

And to come full circle, I agree. Otoh, fact-checking is easier today than it's ever been and conscientious truth-seekers can separate fact from fiction.

How about that?  We agree.

 

I would value news which provides easy access to original sources.

[Zen Traveler]

1 hour ago, Jeff Matthews said:

How about that?  We agree.

 

I would value news which provides easy access to original sources.

Actually, when you dig into these discussions/debates we've had over the years  it seems easy for you and I to agree when it comes to facts. The thing I've learned since our BS Forum was closed is how these social media outlets work and why we can agree that we don't need Government censoring because the industry will censor itself....For example,  I know more about Twitter and Facebook and their rap of spreading fake news under the auspices of advertising was exposed. Heck, they evidently didn't realize what was going on then Internet geeks and Government exposed the flaws. Fwiw, I joined FB after reading the stats that most Americans got their "News" from there and since then I've witnessed the change--It must have been CRAZY prior to now.

 

Cut to now--Had you ever heard of the Social network the latest terrorist subscribed to and shared information? Me neither, but evidently it was where these crazies went after they weren't allowed on FB or Twitter and now we know about them and the industry seems to be doing something about it. THAT is where the current dynamic is different than just considering folks have a 1st Amendment right to spread propaganda....That said, I don't know where the "can't yell fire in a theater," line comes in but so far I don't think there is a need for the government to step in, although a Net Neutrality discussion would definitely get political given where that issues seems to be going. 

[Zen Traveler]

On ‎10‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 9:18 PM, Jeff Matthews said:

That's what I think, too!  Awareness is the better approach - even if that means there will remain multitudes of ignorant and misinformed people.   

I try to stay on top of things but gotta argue that "ignorant and misinformed" is relative...You know how ate up I am with trying to be aware but I just learned last there is an easy app to download where you can find if and when ANYONE voted! That might be a novelty for guys like us, but how many people on Facebook even considered 3rd party "Advertisers" knew this information?  Evidently the app doesn't say how you voted. But, coupled with what we now know about the LIKE feature on Facebook and why they discontinued Newsfeed,   I predict the Social Media industry will police it's own and the MSSM will still allow Fake News to be streamed, but that will fall under the guidelines of "Advertising," and sources gleaned as from a News outlet will be differentiated with an accurate disclaimer of who  they are....Btw, I am politically active on Facebook and surprisingly don't get objectionable material and a VERY limited number of political ads. YMMV.

[T2K]

 

I drove to the local church earlier to cast my/our vote. As we were walking thru the parking lot I noticed several people about 100 feet from the entrance to the church sanctuary. A lady pointed to a candidates sign and said 'don't forget to vote for' when I interrupted her saying ' I don't have time to talk I've got to get in there and stop that Caravan'. We laughed while my wife shook her head. At the door a guy walked in ahead of us and we followed him to a table. I overheard the poll worker tell the guy that he was an inactive voter and sent him to another table to fill out paperwork. I asked the poll worker if I had overheard her correctly, that the guy ahead of us was an attractive voter. She said no he's an inactive voter. We got our ballots and sat down. As I instructed my wife how I thought she should vote, she balked. I promised to later take her to eat BBQ if she would listen to my suggestions. We finished and left the building. Passing the same campaigning lady/sign outside I asked her if she had heard the announcement. She said no. I told her that after inserting our ballots into the machine and exiting out of the sanctuary doors there was an announcement that the Caravan had just stopped and turned around.

 

The BBQ was good.

 

Keith