surrounds for hornhounds

[jdm56]

Just wondering what people are using for surrounds with heritage mains?

What with surround channel proliferation (5.1, 6.1, 7.1, etc.), and the lack of concensus on how to use the rear channels with music (ambience or sources), it makes it pretty hard to know what would be best. Large or small, monopole or di/bipole? Two, three or four?

...ain't life perplexin'?

[prodj101]

umm, you might wanna check later posts. I remember this being a hot topic awehile back. But, as I remember, most people with Lascala's or Belle's were going with Heresys, and most people with the K horns were going with the Lascala's.

[boa12]

yeah jd you need 4-5 lascala or belles. it that doesn't get you into 5-7 "channel"/speaker music, or you have some kinda budget, substitute heresy where applicable. simple as that.

really, since it sounds like you'll be using the khorns only for 2-channel, if i were you i'd get a lascala or belle center, 2 heresy for surround, & 1 for a rear surround center (2 if you have a huge space between the surrounds).

anything else & you'll be compromising timbre match.

oh & then about a sub...

[erikjohn]

I use the Cornwalls for my surrounds with my Khorns and a pair of heresey's on the center. I use the RX-V1 amp which has the test tone to set and eq match your speakers for 5.1-6.1 listening and I find that the Cornwalls are a very close to the Khorns. I had to tweak the Heresey's quite a bit to get a seamless match though. It's just a little food for thought but the Cornwalls are very close even though the LaScalas would probably be best.

EJ

[j-malotky]

JDM

I think it depends on what you are going to use the 5 - 7 system for. If you want 5.1 or 7.1 music, you will want a closer match to your Khorns for the rears. If all your doing is HT effects, the Heresy surrounds is fine. Yes you will have to boost them a few DB over the Khorns on your procesor, but thats no big deal.

I tried listening to 5.1 music, I don't know if I liked it or not. It was kind of cool on Techno / industrial stuff. If I did more, I would plan to upgrade my sides and future rears to LAS. I prefer 2 channel listening so overall I only use my sides and center for HT.

I am using Fortes for my sides and I plan to add Heresys for the rears in the comming year. Maybe if I find a deal on a set of LAS, I would get them instead, but that remains to be seen.

JM

[boa12]

oh yes as didn't mean to leave out the cornwalls as I was thinking new. as far as used corns are a good match (even a fairly good to my klf). i haven't heard forte or chorus, but sounds like they are a pretty decent match for the official heritage speaks, especially in the surround/rear duty.

[erikjohn]

Boa,

Yea and I was just thinkin matching in general. This brings up a question that I have. Do the new Heresey's sound like the old ones or is there is big difference there?

EJ

[jdm56]

The front center speaker will be a belle (on order from Kief's in Lawrence, KS since 4/16/02. but that's another story.)

Huge speakers for surrounds just seems like major overkill, since the only thing that should be there is ambience. And since I sit fairly close to the rear wall (3-5ft), a big, single back surround is out of the question. Besides, I've got a 1000 disc CD cabinet sitting there.

I don't really buy into the idea that surrounds need to be timbrally matched to the front speakers. I guess it would depend on how the recording engineer uses them, maybe. If that was critical, well, another pair of k-horns would be the only "best" way to go. And that ain't happenin' at my house. Mama'd have a cow. Maybe heresy's, or at most, a pair of used belles. And then a couple more heresy's for the back surrounds, eventually.

As to the differences in sound, new heresy vs. old, I don't think they were changed any, except for the finishes available, and the price. They may have wire'd 'em up with Monster or something. (big deal)

[Jim Cornell]

From Jim to Jim

Honestly. Im not against H/T, be we are in the big owners club, the Klipschorns with H/T would prabably take up all your sitting space LOL!

Klipschorns front

Belle center

La Scalas rear

100 square feet of speaker LOL

No, theres no way i could H/T these Klipschorns, i can only watch so many movies anyway, for the same price you could have some very nice tubes, nice used car LOL and some!

Ill be getting a quintet surround system, hang them around the room out of the way!

Jim

[Audible Nectar]

James McCall said:

"Huge speakers for surrounds just seems like major overkill, since the only thing that should be there is ambience. And since I sit fairly close to the rear wall (3-5ft), a big, single back surround is out of the question. Besides, I've got a 1000 disc CD cabinet sitting there.

I don't really buy into the idea that surrounds need to be timbrally matched to the front speakers. I guess it would depend on how the recording engineer uses them, maybe. If that was critical, well, another pair of k-horns would be the only "best" way to go. And that ain't happenin' at my house. Mama'd have a cow. Maybe heresy's, or at most, a pair of used belles. And then a couple more heresy's for the back surrounds, eventually."

James, I used to think the same way, until I landed here on the Klipsch forum.

My first Klipsch find was my Cornwall II's, and I sought to put together the remainder of a 5.1 system around them. I lucked out and found the Academy rather quickly, but was in a similar situation as you - not much room for surrounds, not sure as to mono/dipole approach. My initial feeling: I preferred the HornEd approach - obtaining as close to 5 identical speakers as possible. It is for this reason that I am seeking a single Belle for center duty.

I had no room for Cornwall II's in the rear, but the Chorus could be squeezed in (same tweeter squawker in both). I found a set and installed them - I have them atop coffee tables (so the tweeter/squawker is a bit above ear level) and angled to fire criss cross at the back of our heads. Our room is 14W X 16L.

One listen to "Eagles: HFO" and The Band's "The Last Waltz" in 5.1 is the ultimate justification for taking the trouble to timbre match. When properly calibrated, these mixes are simply mind blowing; you will become attached to the full range rears in a big hurry. This is where timbre matching shows off in all of its glory.

J malotky gets to the heart of the debate. I will point out that I typically listen to more music tracks than movie material, but cinema soundtracks are no less impressive on my setup. "The Matrix" provided an awesome demonstration of just how much low bass information is back there. I don't find the rear dispersion to be really lacking, but I do find the dipoles inadequate for multi channel music (especially in a Heritage HT). This is ultimately where your decision will rest - how best to set up your rear array will be based on use and tastes.

I strongly recommend experimenting here. I would prefer Lascalas or Belles as surrounds in your case. If at all possible, try to obtain a set and try them out. Once you do, I've got a feeling you'll end up owning them. If space is a problem, Heresys would be OK, but fully horn loaded is preferable. If you are thinking 7.1, you could do 4 Heresys as rear, and gain some dispersion, simply by way of four speakers being in different locations. But wouldn't 4 LaScalas be awesome? (James, think to self: 5-7 channels of fully horn loaded bliss)

The "used Belles/Heresys as rear" as you mentioned above would work very well. 5 fully horn loaded speakers for DVDA, SACD, and DVD movies, 2 Heresys for added dispersion charateristics. You could also substitute LaScalas for Belles, if desired. You need not have Khorns in the rear to make this all worthwhile - the Belles/LaScalas are close enough to give that oh-so-compelling horn loaded feel with no real compromise.

Also: I think Q-Man has a Heritage HT, he could give you some pointers too, beyond my basic 5.1 approach.

EDIT: James, that avatar is a riot!!!! I nearly sprayed coffee on the monitor again......

[erikjohn]

I agree with dndfishing. See the link related to this thread.

http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=26457&pageNo=1&num=&sessionID={E6105530-13AC-4C3C-B063-85C7506560BD}

EJ

[jdm56]

Seems that those with experience agree that bigger is better. Problem is, with my current room set-up, there just isn't quite enough room. Most workable would be four heresy II's, probably. I gotta admit, though, the idea of full range horns all around kinda makes my palms sweat.

OK. k-horns in front, belle center, do some reconfiguring to make more room, then insert a pair of good used belles in the rear corners, and then, if need be, a pair of heresy II's on the back wall. That should give good timbre match for discrete 5.1 music mixes that place instruments in the surrounds, AND decent envelopment when the surrounds are used primarily for ambience.

[boa12]

jd, yeah what dnd says.

my thinking is that the room itself will cause some amount of timbre mismatch to your ears. iow, even w/ the same info in mono w/ the exact same speakers, but w/ some in the front of room & the others in the rear, they'll still sound somewhat different, unless you have one of those perfect sound rooms.

but if you use speaks whose own drivers/characteristics don't as well match as those that do, then you will get even more timbre confusion. so try to timbre match 'em as if they're all fronts. that's my logic anyway.

[T2K]

Anyone remember what speakers were used for front, center, and surround in Hope? Didn't they use multiple Heresy's ?

Keith

[Lone Palm]

Got LaScalas for mains Heresys for rears and RC-3 center. Don't need or want sub and I'm thrilled everytime I crank it.

[jdm56]

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On 10/24/2002 6:58:50 PM talktoKeith wrote:

Anyone remember what speakers were used for front, center, and surround in Hope? Didn't they use multiple Heresy's ?

Keith

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[/blockquote

I seem to recall from the pictures y'all posted that they used heresys, fairly high on the side and rear walls.

[JohnA]

The 5.1 system at Hope used Jubilees as L&R, a Belle for Center and K-horns for surrounds. Several Heresies were mounted along the walls, but I can't remember hearing them.

John

[Q-Man]

I wasn't going to say anything here, but since my name was dropped I will. I don't like recommending

the use of as closely matched speakers as possible over and over again. I don't want to sound too pig headed.

Over the past few years I've changed my speakers guite a bit. All the while trying to find something that sounded like a match for Klipschorns. The KLF-C7 lasted a mounth or two as the center channel speaker, but I didn't like it. I changed it to a LaScala.

In the rear I tried four other brands, but then changed it to a LaScala. The LaScala still wasn't enought to fill in the rear for me. I built a pair of Jensen Imperials for the rear, because they sound a lot like the Klipschorn and arn't so corner dependent. I loaded the Imperials with Klipsch drivers and horns to make them sound identical to the Klipschorns. Now I was hearing what I wanted except not enought ambiiance. That was an easy fix. I just put the LaScalas that the Imperials replaced on top of the Imperials and aimed them in another direction.

Then 6.1 came along so I pulled the KLF-C7 out of the closet and tried it for the rear center. No, didn't work. That spot also requires a LaScala or better. I've been experimenting with the University Classic there.

Now I'm changing again. I'm replacing the K-400 horn and K-55 driver in my Klipschorns with some Altec stuff. Today I just bought 3 more horns and drivers so I can change out my center and rear speakers to match the new sound of the Klipschorns. This means the LaScala center channel speaker has to go. The LaScala is too small of a speaker to put this new horn and driver in. The new center channel speaker will be the University Classic bass horn with a Klipsch network and the Altec horn and driver. This also means that I have to rebuild my wall unit in order to fit that much of a speaker above the TV. The speaker will be 38 1/2" wide and 47" tall.

So you can't ask this question of me. I'm too anal about all my speakers matching. There is nothing like having all full range speakers when that sound travels around the room.

With 5.1 mucic DVD's and DVD audio, it's wonderfull. It really makes me believe that two channel is dead, or soon will be. This could be bigger then the CD replacing the LP. I hope so, I can't wait for DVD Audio to flood the market.

Anyone living in Florida? I'm going to sell a pair of my LaScalas.

[Invidiosulus]

Q-man,

I live in orlando.

How much are you thinking for your La scalas

I'm a student and thus on a budget but still very interested.

Ever since my dad and I visited John Albright and listened to his LS based HT I've wanted a pair.

Peace, Josh Brown

[Q-Man]

Josh,

$1,100.00 and I will deliver them to you in Orlando.