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Emile

DIY bass bins - dual 12" woofers

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10 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Insulting as this may be, I'm sorry I wasted my time.

Claude, 

Apologize if you feel this way :( Just wasn't ready yet to start "sawing" and "needed" a little more discussion.

Regards, Emile

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Just now, Emile said:

Claude, 

Apologize if you feel this way :( Just wasn't ready yet to start "sawing" and "needed" a little more discussion.

Regards, Emile

No problem. It was late and I was cranky. It will be a good performer with a small footprint. The Neo driver is more expensive, but it will give you less weght. Perfomance will be almost identical to the "mud magnet" one.

 

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5 hours ago, jason str said:

 

Best to use a 24 dB/octave high pass filter to protect the woofer.

Good advice, but highly dependent on how "stupid loud" it will play. My curve shows a 2 volt drive , which is 1 Watt.with well over 100 db output and that's for jut ONE cabinet. In a small room, there won't be more than a 6 db loss to the listening position, depending on room treatments, and how much stuffing in the cabinet. Personally, I would not go thought the expense of the HP filter, unless it's going to be used in a DJ system at a Wedding with a sub.

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OK; bit lost now :( 

@ClaudeJ1's "double" Super Heresy's (haha; obviously) seems to be the best way to go.  But, hope I can ask some stupid questions just "to learn," as I am not up to the level of you guys  :D 

 

First; still looking at the CF3's, v3 ... is this a terrible solution as these just won't get me the output of "pro" woofers??? 

Second; have this set of Forte I's ... how about just putting "pro woofers" in those (and of course forgetting about the horns since I've got the 510's)???

Third; since this system is in a "small" room, how about just a set of single Super Heresy's (again bypassing the horns)???

 

It's probably obvious from the above "simple" solutions that I am trying to avoid building new boxes :D  

 

Many, many thanks!

 

Cheers, Emile

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6 hours ago, Emile said:

OK; bit lost now :( 

@ClaudeJ1's "double" Super Heresy's (haha; obviously) seems to be the best way to go.  But, hope I can ask some stupid questions just "to learn," as I am not up to the level of you guys  :D 

 

First; still looking at the CF3's, v3 ... is this a terrible solution as these just won't get me the output of "pro" woofers??? 

Second; have this set of Forte I's ... how about just putting "pro woofers" in those (and of course forgetting about the horns since I've got the 510's)???

Third; since this system is in a "small" room, how about just a set of single Super Heresy's (again bypassing the horns)???

 

It's probably obvious from the above "simple" solutions that I am trying to avoid building new boxes :D  

 

Many, many thanks!

 

Cheers, Emile

Looks to me like you'll do most anything to get out of making saw dust at the correct dimensions, rather than doing it right, won't you?? I'm not picking on you, just telling it like it is...........$$ and WORK. That's why it's called DIY, you gotta do it all yourself. Cut 12 pieces of wood, cut 2 rectangles and 8 holes (2 for the woofers and 2 for the same ports used in the Super Heresy). Use screws and glue as required. Figure out the stain or no stain or glossy vs. satin finish. Done. Then invite friends over for the demo of world class 1st class speakers after you get the networks built.:D No short cuts!!

 

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3 hours ago, Emile said:

OK; bit lost now :( 

@ClaudeJ1's "double" Super Heresy's (haha; obviously) seems to be the best way to go.  But, hope I can ask some stupid questions just "to learn," as I am not up to the level of you guys  :D 

 

First; still looking at the CF3's, v3 ... is this a terrible solution as these just won't get me the output of "pro" woofers??? 

Second; have this set of Forte I's ... how about just putting "pro woofers" in those (and of course forgetting about the horns since I've got the 510's)???

Third; since this system is in a "small" room, how about just a set of single Super Heresy's (again bypassing the horns)???

 

It's probably obvious from the above "simple" solutions that I am trying to avoid building new boxes :D  

 

Many, many thanks!

 

Cheers, Emile

How about finding something similar to this pair of JBL's?   find a model known for their good qualities for your 510's.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-2-JBL-SR4731X-F-SR-X-Dual-12-three-way-Loud-Speaker/163521247053?hash=item2612a0374d:g:UtAAAOSws~dcVSNt:rk:12:pf:0 

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3 hours ago, Emile said:

First; still looking at the CF3's, v3 ... is this a terrible solution as these just won't get me the output of "pro" woofers??? 

In my opinion CF-3's with its dual 10's won't get you that chest thump I think you are looking for.

 

I have the CF-4 w/dual 12's and even though you might think they would have a lot of bass, they really don't.  What you get is some really clean articulate mid-bass.  In my 3.1 setup a 15" sealed sub adds that chest thump, which doesn't come through the subs directly, but through the speakers.

+++

 

Did you see my suggestion earlier in this thread for the DIYsoundgroup mid-bass modules?  I thought you might have missed it. 

 

Trust me on this.  B)

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1 minute ago, wvu80 said:

In my opinion CF-3's with its dual 10's won't get you that chest thump I think you are looking for.

 

Thank you SIR ... OK; scratch the CF3's off my list :)  Don't need "chest-thumping," but my Forte's are just anemic (OK; when I compare them to pro speakers), Still hoping to find a yes/no answer on replacing the woofers with pro's in my Forte's ... but hate to spend $200 just to "try" it :( 

 

Yes; did look at  DIYsound. Very interesting, but "stuck" with their woofer ... and the 12" box seems a bit small :(  

 

Jeez ... continuing :) ... but guess these are good problems to have :D 

 

Cheers, Emile

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26 minutes ago, Emile said:

Yes; did look at  DIYsound. Very interesting, but "stuck" with their woofer ... and the 12" box seems a bit small :(  

 

t-shirt-star-wars-yoda-judge-me-by-my-size-do-you-black.jpg

 

Do you already have the woofers?  I didn't realize that.  I thought you were looking for a strong mid-bass module because you had some horns to put on top.  The flat pack box is close to the dimensions you had listed, and yours were for 2 woofers.   You can get the flat pack without the front baffle and woofer.

 

If you have the tools you could cut your own front baffle.  Those flat packs are CNC cut and are super well designed, the fit and finish is incredible.  All you need is glue and tape to put it together.  I've built three of the 3 cuft boxes for the 15" sealed subs.  Maybe you have woodworking skills and tools, but for a guy like me those flat packs are worth the price of admission. 

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1 hour ago, wvu80 said:

Do you already have the woofers? 

Haha ... not judging your "size" :D 

 

No; haven't bought any woofers yet.  Was looking at the Eminence Pro series. Any pro speakers I heard (and owned) are just so much more powerful  (and to me more defined) than "home" speakers.

 

DIYsound 12"  box is 26x14.5x15 ... quite a bit smaller then the Forte's at 36x15.5x12 (about 20% larger).  That's why I thought I might be able to use the Forte box just as a bass bin with a better pro woofer.

 

BTW; got a 15" subwoofer kit from PE based on your recommendations. Pretty sure these are the same. Awesome. Easy assembly ... Of course had to veneer it for the WAF :(  Haha; not looking forward to building from scratch ... only as a last resort :D  (Getting older ...no fun hauling 4x8ft panels.)

 

Many thanks, Emile

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1 hour ago, Emile said:

(Getting older ...no fun hauling 4x8ft panels.)

 

Me too, that's why I pay Home Depot to precut them. Once the saw is set up, they just get ripped for you at the same dimension. Plus a $20 tip to the guy helps get it done with gusto!!

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2 hours ago, Emile said:

No; haven't bought any woofers yet.  Was looking at the Eminence Pro series. Any pro speakers I heard (and owned) are just so much more powerful  (and to me more defined) than "home" speakers.

The Eminence that DIYsoundgroup uses are all pro woofers.  The power handling is 10-1000 watts.

 

  • Custom made Eminence high end 12" woofer.
  • Easy to power 8 ohm load and 93db 1w/1m sensitivity.
  • Will handle up to 1000 watts and play over 120db.
2 hours ago, Emile said:

BTW; got a 15" subwoofer kit from PE based on your recommendations. Pretty sure these are the same.

 

No, not the same.  DIYsoundgroup has the 3 cuft 15" and 4 cuft 18" subs but these are MBM mid-bass-modules. 

 

The custom 12" woofer used in the Maximus-12 is capable of very strong midbass output.  Some people asked if a Midbass Module kit could be made using it, so here it is.  This is basically lower section of the Maximus-12.  There is now a flat pack designed specifically for this kit and that is the recommended size along with a single 4" port.

 

I'm not trying to talk you in or out of anything.  I just figured I'd pass on some information you might not have seen.  B)

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While it's good to do research, at some a point a decision must be made. Otherwise one can say it's the "paralysis of analysis" in action.

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22 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Good advice, but highly dependent on how "stupid loud" it will play. My curve shows a 2 volt drive , which is 1 Watt.with well over 100 db output and that's for jut ONE cabinet. In a small room, there won't be more than a 6 db loss to the listening position, depending on room treatments, and how much stuffing in the cabinet. Personally, I would not go thought the expense of the HP filter, unless it's going to be used in a DJ system at a Wedding with a sub.

 

A simple filter is cheaper than replacing a driver or four, just giving proper advice.

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Update :D  

 

Yes; dual 12's or even a single 15" will be THE way to go.  But, having a knee replacement in 3-4 weeks so won''t be able to do much lifting/fabricating for a couple of months :(  

Had some GREAT PM discussions with @wvu80 and @moray james (THANK YOU guys)  and first going to try a pair of Pro woofers (Eminence Delta 12LFA) in my Forte cabinets.  Moray thinks it might get me close to Cornwall's.  Hey; for $150 it's worth a try :)  

 

OK; will probably build another box in 3 months ... stay tuned.

 

Many thanks for everyone's input!

 

Cheers, Emile

 

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Any thoughts about using one pair of Super Heresys as the mid bass cabs underneath a top cab with 510/K691s? I have a pair of mid eighties H2s in storage I could use the cabinets from.  Would probably build fresh motorboards and backs so I could put the heresys back to stock in the future.  Which drivers would work best, the Eminence KappaLite neos? I have everything I need for active crossovers and measurement with REW.

 

The rationale is I'm extremely space constrained so horn loaded bass cabs will have to wait ten years until I retire and move out of silicon valley, at which point I'll probably get a pair of Jubes. I have the H2s just sitting in storage so might as well use them. I'll probably start with 2 channel stereo and possibly add a sub depending on how the room coupling measures out.

 

Is this a crazy idea?

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16 minutes ago, MenloBob said:

Is this a crazy idea?

Hi Bob,

 

Welcome to the forum :D  

 

Certainly not a crazy idea :)  Probably would work ... are you thinking of building a set?  However, slowly starting to think trying to add "non-pro" Klipsch speakers is just going to be a mismatch with the 510/691 horns :(   OK; the Eminence Pro woofers just arrived :)  Will hook them up and let you know the results - withing a couple of days.

 

Cheers, Emile

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4 minutes ago, Emile said:

Welcome to the forum :D  

 

Thanks! I've been lurking here on and off for years..

 

5 minutes ago, Emile said:

Probably would work ... are you thinking of building a set?  However, slowly starting to think trying to add "non-pro" Klipsch speakers is just going to be a mismatch with the 510/691 horns :(

 

Yeah, I think this is a great way to repurpose these cabinets that I'm never gonna sell, but are only collecting dust. It's much easier to get the balance right with full active crossovers and DSP filtering.

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26 minutes ago, MenloBob said:

I've been lurking here on and off for years..

 

Haha ... obviously since you seem to be one of the "knowledgable" fanatics.  Have fun :D  

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On 2/14/2019 at 3:57 PM, Emile said:

Had some GREAT PM discussions with @wvu80 and @moray james (THANK YOU guys)  and first going to try a pair of Pro woofers (Eminence Delta 12LFA) in my Forte cabinets.  Moray thinks it might get me close to Cornwall's.  Hey; for $150 it's worth a try :)  

 

Any progress on updating the Fortes?

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