Minimum wattage for the RF 7 II's or III's ?

[MicroMara]

strange again ..at level between 55 dB and 60 dB I´ve got a space filling soundstage in the overall spectrum of frequencies in my listening room , it´s the first "golden watt "

 

 

[82 Cornwalls]

deleted

[82 Cornwalls]

Mistake post or just trying to increase post count. You decide. 😉

[tigerwoodKhorns]

On 2/11/2023 at 4:03 PM, henry4841 said:

No way for you to know exactly what the meters are saying. They are eye candy at most. Get out a decent VOM to get numbers for an accurate amount of voltage you are getting to the terminals of your speakers. Measure across the speaker terminals the peak AC voltage on peaks then use ohms law to get an more accurate number of the watts you are truly using. Do this on the loudest you listen at. Nelson Pass has an oscilloscope set up to show a 1 watt window in his testing listening room on 95db full range speakers and people are always telling him to turn the volume down and the signal is no where near the limit range of the scope. Real measurements and not hype audiophiles are subjected to so much of. Members on our forum using Klipsch speakers should think quality watts over quantity and not listen to false claims from those trying to sell something. 

 

Speakers that demand high current will need a big amp.  I had the big B&W800s and they needed a lot of power as they had a very difficult load.  I used 700 wpc (@ 4 ohms) Classe monoblocks.  It was weird, as you turned up the volume they did get loud, but responded more slowly than you would think (reminded me of driving a Harley...). 

 

I switched to Palladiums and they seem to get by on way less power and respond quickly to move of the volume control.  I really don't favor speakers that are difficult to drive anymore. 

[henry4841]

I should have no comment being this subject that always comes up frequently. I love tubes. Tubes still rule when it comes to sound for me. My sweet spot as far as power with my LaScala's is 5 watts. I never run out of power with 5 tube watts and never hear clipping or distortion. Either this reflects on what is true or on my hearing, could be failing after almost 74 years. 🙂 I do not think so but who really knows, I only hear what hear and not what you hear. 

 

Serious though, tubes can clip on peaks and you will never know it. It is the nature of how tubes clip compared to SS. You clip a SS amp and you will cringe. When the master of horn sound says what the world needs is a good 5 watt amplifier one needs to at least pay attention and not pay attention to so called internet experts. Busting the power myth with horn speakers is not going to happen with many that have been taught since birth that more power means better. Mine has more than yours is always going to be a strong selling point to the unknowledgeable public. Auditoriums were filled with sound many decades ago with big horns and little tube power. It is all they had before the big power SS amplifiers made their introduction. That should tell skeptics something but I doubt it. 

[KT88]

58 minutes ago, henry4841 said:

I should have no comment being this subject that always comes up frequently. I love tubes. Tubes still rule when it comes to sound for me. My sweet spot as far as power with my LaScala's is 5 watts. I never run out of power with 5 tube watts and never hear clipping or distortion. Either this reflects on what is true or on my hearing, could be failing after almost 74 years. 🙂 I do not think so but who really knows, I only hear what hear and not what you hear. 

 

Serious though, tubes can clip on peaks and you will never know it. It is the nature of how tubes clip compared to SS. You clip a SS amp and you will cringe. When the master of horn sound says what the world needs is a good 5 watt amplifier one needs to at least pay attention and not pay attention to so called internet experts. Busting the power myth with horn speakers is not going to happen with many that have been taught since birth that more power means better. Mine has more than yours is always going to be a strong selling point to the unknowledgeable public. Auditoriums were filled with sound many decades ago with big horns and little tube power. It is all they had before the big power SS amplifiers made their introduction. That should tell skeptics something but I doubt it. 

Henry, I fully support your views as long as they are bass horns driven (e.g. your LaScala). Or they are small conventional speakers (with enough air suspension and a nice and light impedance curve) to reproduce a quiet but lovely sound with 5 watts in a smaller room. For example, a small BBC LS3/5 always goes very well with a 10 WPC Leak Stereo 20 with EL84 PP in small rooms, even if it has a pathetic efficiency of only 82 dB.
But when it comes to newer very power hungry large bass reflex speakers, especially if they also have low impedance (B&W, Sonus Faber and many more) then unfortunately you may need more power. Then sometimes 100 watts is not enough. How good or bad these 100 watts sound is a completely different question...above all, the sound delivered up to the first watt counts immensely in this case as well.
I personally love efficient speakers with smaller amps a lot. But some speakers are worth it if you run them with more powerful amps. I think that is even the case with the Cornwall. It doesn't have to be 100 watts, but 25 watts is perhaps not wrong from my point of view if you want the bass to build up some pressure. Unless you hear the Cornwalls only very quietly. But actually it is not about loud listening in this case, it is audible even at moderate room volume whether the bass has some strength. In the end, it is fortunately also a matter of taste.

[henry4841]

My sweet spot for SS is 25 watts. I have some really good sounding class A SS amps with less power but I like to see 25 watts when it comes to SS. But what really is my favorite is a good SET tube 5 or 6 watt amplifier. It is the purist choice when it comes to sound. IMHO the way music is supposed to sound. More of our members should experience the single ended triode sound with our horns in their lifetime. I was 60 years old before I found out what all the talk of an SET was about. For years I wondered why an idiot would spend thousands for a tube amplifier with only 5 or 6 watts. Like many here I thought it was crazy. Everyone knows you need at least 100 watts, right. The thing is only serious audiophiles really sit down and concentrate on the music. That is the only way one will ever tell a difference. There is magic in big tubes. 

 

Those that consider louder as better will never know the difference. 

[the real Duke Spinner]

16 hours ago, 82 Cornwalls said:

Mistake post or just trying to increase post count. You decide. 😉

That works. 😀

[GuyIsDamGood]

(Thanks to everyone for the info on necessary amplifier watts to power Klipsch Speakers)

 

 

 

I believe I've found the amplifier with enough watts for the RF-7iiis: Rotel RB-1582 or (preferred: RB-1590).

 

Those amplifiers Have what I'm looking for.

 

 

 

 

 

(Thanks for the video YK Thom)

 

 

 

I learned a lot from the commentator's info on amplifier watts. My family likes to hear Loud audio; but we're probably damaging our ears. (I'll take my time choosing a more suitable amplifier)

[grendel23]

4 hours ago, henry4841 said:

My sweet spot for SS is 25 watts.

I am running a 25wpc Pass design class A amp on K-402s with Axi2050 drivers. For horn loaded speakers I find that to be enough.

The original ask was for direct radiator bass. On those speakers I have found I prefer amps with deep current reserves. Especially where the impedance dips well below 4 ohms.

[GuyIsDamGood]

Is the Rotel RB-1582 Mach 2 and RB-1590 amplifiers a well match for the Klipsch RF-7III speakers?

 

Thank you 

Edited February 14, 2023 by GuyIsDamGood

[the real Duke Spinner]

On 2/13/2023 at 5:43 PM, 82 Cornwalls said:

Mistake post or just trying to increase post count. You decide. 😉

😀😀😀

[82 Cornwalls]

On 2/14/2023 at 7:13 AM, KT88 said:

Henry, I fully support your views as long as they are bass horns driven (e.g. your LaScala).

 

I have read (more than once) that La Scalas are not horn loaded below ~ 100 hz.

 

 

Many speakers have passed the single ended (less than 10 watts) tube amp challenge in my 2 music only systems, never needed more than ~20 watts for those that didn't. YMMV

 

[henry4841]

7 hours ago, 82 Cornwalls said:

 

I have read (more than once) that La Scalas are not horn loaded below ~ 100 hz

 

Not totally convinced that is true but never the less that is what subs are made for.  🙂 

 

The talk is mainly about the bass or lack of with a SET but many SET's make remarkable bass for watts produced. Granted the damping factor is not the best but if one wants to sacrifice where truly music lives, SET's make the sweetest mids you will ever hear, and are only concerned about strong bass look no further than a good Class D amplifier. In my stable of amps, 25 last count, class D makes the quickest sharpest bass I have heard but then the mids are not going to project in the room or sound as sweet as with a SET. As you may guess I am in PWK's camp of music lives in the mids. Bi-amping is an option but the bass of a good  5 watt SET is plenty good enough for me. Using a good sub takes it to the next level sacrificing nothing along with remarkable mids. This all depends on the music one listens to of course. If ones taste is hard driving electronic music you will be better off with a SS amp, in general terms. I am talking about quality music, acoustic instruments with solo or group singers. Real trained singers and not the ones that scream at the top of their lungs and call it music. I do listen to soft rock, country singers as well but not as much as when younger. Hard rock, at 73 almost 74, not much anymore. 

[GuyIsDamGood]

I purchased the Rotel RB-1582 Mk 2 (External-Amplifier) - (going to stay with this amplifier).   (everything works; except the DVD-manual)

 

The 200-watts per channel stereo External-Amp gives the RF-7iiis enough power to play them loud (with some bass input).

 

Thanks for everyone's help.

 

(I'll try a tube-amplifier next)

[tigerwoodKhorns]

On 2/16/2023 at 4:03 AM, henry4841 said:

Not totally convinced that is true but never the less that is what subs are made for.  🙂 

 

The talk is mainly about the bass or lack of with a SET but many SET's make remarkable bass for watts produced. Granted the damping factor is not the best but if one wants to sacrifice where truly music lives, SET's make the sweetest mids you will ever hear, and are only concerned about strong bass look no further than a good Class D amplifier. In my stable of amps, 25 last count, class D makes the quickest sharpest bass I have heard but then the mids are not going to project in the room or sound as sweet as with a SET. As you may guess I am in PWK's camp of music lives in the mids. Bi-amping is an option but the bass of a good  5 watt SET is plenty good enough for me. Using a good sub takes it to the next level sacrificing nothing along with remarkable mids. This all depends on the music one listens to of course. If ones taste is hard driving electronic music you will be better off with a SS amp, in general terms. I am talking about quality music, acoustic instruments with solo or group singers. Real trained singers and not the ones that scream at the top of their lungs and call it music. I do listen to soft rock, country singers as well but not as much as when younger. Hard rock, at 73 almost 74, not much anymore. 

I ran Belles with SET maybe 2 or three watts and they had bass. 

[henry4841]

Maynard's Little Sweetie amp with 1 watt of power has great bass with just the 1 watt on LaScala's. If someone were to come to my house and listen to it playing not knowing what it was they would be shocked to learn it only has one watt. 

[GuyIsDamGood]

Hello

 

Does anyone know what the 4-ohm wattage is on the Rotel RB-1582 Mk 2?

 

Thank you 

[MicroMara]

1 hour ago, GuyIsDamGood said:

Hello

 

Does anyone know what the 4-ohm wattage is on the Rotel RB-1582 Mk 2?

 

Thank you 

The RB-1582 MK II  has 200W/8Ohm per channel, purely mathematically that should be about 275 watts at 4 ohms.

[GuyIsDamGood]

Thanks for the help/info; MicroMara.

 

(I basically would have not figured it to be (stereo) 275-watts at 4-ohms)