Oldish Klipschorns Update suggestions

[baron167]

At the risk of being shamed for dust and procrastination, I'd like your input on needed updates to my old Klipschorns, please. To my knowledge, they are all original and sound OK.

 

Thanks,

Richard

 

 

 

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[OO1]

18 minutes ago, baron167 said:

 

At the risk of being shamed for dust and procrastination, I'd like your input on needed updates to my old Klipschorns, please. To my knowledge, they are all original and sound OK.

 

Thanks,

Richard

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

These are 1974 KHORNS ----------and the first that comes to mind is replacing the steel cans ---in your crossovers , and rotating the woofers 180 degrees -----but if you ----------but you say , these sound ok , is there something you would want to ameliorate , or something that is lacking -

[codewritinfool]

No shame at all! 

 

I suspect the answers you'll get here are these:

 

1.  Consider re-capping those crossovers.

2.  Consider changing to a better midrange driver and a better tweeter.

3.  Consider changing to a better horn for the midrange.

 

Honestly, though, since I've done all of the above......   I'd focus on #1.  If they sound great already, well, enjoy them AS-IS!

[baron167]

These are 1974 KHORNS ----------and the first that comes to mind is replacing the steel cans ---in your crossovers , and rotating the woofers 180 degrees -----but if you ----------but you say , these sound ok , is there something you would want to ameliorate , or something that is lacking -

To sound better than just OK. Don't get me wrong. I have other Heritage pairs and these sound the best and are the oldest. Others are Heresy II's, Cornwalls, and La Scalas. Updating the crossovers I can definitely understand. Rotating the woofers 180 degrees is a very interesting point and can get behind. Thank you.


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[baron167]

No shame at all! 
 
I suspect the answers you'll get here are these:
 
1.  Consider re-capping those crossovers.
2.  Consider changing to a better midrange driver and a better tweeter.
3.  Consider changing to a better horn for the midrange.
 
Honestly, though, since I've done all of the above......   I'd focus on #1.  If they sound great already, well, enjoy them AS-IS!

Thanks!

Agreed on crossovers.

Better drivers? Better horn for the midrange? Hmm. As in something from Crites? I'm game.


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[OO1]

Just now, baron167 said:

To sound better than just OK.

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Then a new crossover , is a must

[wuzzzer]

2 hours ago, baron167 said:

Thanks!

Agreed on crossovers.

Better drivers? Better horn for the midrange? Hmm. As in something from Crites? I'm game.


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If you can find a pair of K-55V midrange compression drivers from around 1981 with soldered lugs, they are absolutely amazing.  They usually sell for $300/pair +-.  You could sell your current drivers for around $150 if they both work. 

[baron167]

 
If you can find a pair of K-55V midrange compression drivers from around 1981 with soldered lugs, they are absolutely amazing.  They usually sell for $300/pair +-.  You could sell your current drivers for around $150 if they both work. 

What makes them different from my current K-55-V drivers? Thanks


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[wuzzzer]

If you do a search you'll find DeanG and others talking about how the standard K-55V that has push-pin connectors measures 20dB down at its crossover point.

The soldered lug driver is also known as a dual phase plug design and has significantly better output.

 

I A/B'd my 1981 Heresys against 1990 Heresy IIs and 2019 Heresy IIIs and the midrange in my 1981s won the battle hands down.  To me there was no comparison. 

[baron167]

If you do a search you'll find DeanG and others talking about how the standard K-55V that has push-pin connectors measures 20dB down at its crossover point.
The soldered lug driver is also known as a dual phase plug design and has significantly better output.
 
I A/B'd my 1981 Heresys against 1990 Heresy IIs and 2019 Heresy IIIs and the midrange in my 1981s won the battle hands down.  To me there was no comparison. 

Thank you. I saw the Dope from Hope write up. Do you know where the K-55G that Crites sells falls on the worst to best scale?


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[hanksjim1]

My advice is to focus on the tweeters and crossover...add the Crites TYPE A/4500 Crossovers and CT120 Tweeters

 

 

[OO1]

On 5/21/2020 at 11:10 AM, baron167 said:

Thank you. I saw the Dope from Hope write up. Do you know where the K-55G that Crites sells falls on the worst to best scale?

it's not a K-55g - it's a A-55G   

 

[OO1]

37 minutes ago, baron167 said:

Thank you. I saw the Dope from Hope write up. Do you know where the K-55G that Crites sells falls on the worst to best scale?


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THE DOPE FROM HOPE WRITE  did not say the original K55V was bad , just a slight difference -as a matter of fact the new K55V -Atlas driver PD5VH is not the dual phase plug design ------

[Davecv41]

14 minutes ago, hanksjim1 said:

My advice is to focus on the tweeters and crossover...add the Crites TYPE A/4500 Crossovers and CT120 Tweeters

 

 

The A-55G was/is out of stock until next year, the tweeters and crossovers you could do before then.

[PrestonTom]

With all due respect to some of the above ...... IMHO, I would not start replacing drivers and horns. The speakers will sound great, even in their stock form. 

 

Sure, go ahead and refresh the caps. Maybe even "seal" the cabinets to the corners (search on "pipe foam"). After that, just listen and enjoy.

 

If you need to do something, then start  with some tedious and boring (systematic) adjustments on where the listening chair  is located or maybe some extra drapes on the windows (IOW, some room treatment). This will not be a quick process, but it can be accelerated if you are willing to get an inexpensive measurement microphone (plenty of threads to search). 

 

If you still feel the need for additional improvement, then IMHO, the biggest positive impacts will be 1) a sensible use of room treatments (they can be disguised also) and 2) getting an active DSP unit and bi-amping (or tri-amping). Depending on Mr Wallet, the units range from a Behringer, Ashley, DBX, Rane, Electrovoice, Xilica, or Yamaha. When doing this a measurement mic is essential. The degree of improvement can be profound. 

[baron167]

With all due respect to some of the above ...... IMHO, I would not start replacing drivers and horns. The speakers will sound great, even in their stock form. 
 
Sure, go ahead and refresh the caps. Maybe even "seal" the cabinets to the corners (search on "pipe foam"). After that, just listen and enjoy.
 
If you need to do something, then start  with some tedious and boring (systematic) adjustments on where the listening chair  is located or maybe some extra drapes on the windows (IOW, some room treatment). This will not be a quick process, but it can be accelerated if you are willing to get an inexpensive measurement microphone (plenty of threads to search). 
 
If you still feel the need for additional improvement, then IMHO, the biggest positive impacts will be 1) a sensible use of room treatments (they can be disguised also) and 2) getting an active DSP unit and bi-amping (or tri-amping). Depending on Mr Wallet, the units range from a Behringer, Ashley, DBX, Rane, Electrovoice, Xilica, or Yamaha. When doing this a measurement mic is essential. The degree of improvement can be profound. 

Thank you. I have had these sealed into my corners for years. I have changed room acoustics, seating positions, preamp and amplification. I've never been unhappy with their sound or performance, but being all original, I think I need to make a move in refreshing or replacing the crossovers as my first step in improvements.


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[baron167]

THE DOPE FROM HOPE WRITE  did not say the original K55V was bad , just a slight difference -as a matter of fact the new K55V -Atlas driver PD5VH is not the dual phase plug design ------

I get that, thanks.


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[baron167]

it's not a K-55g - it's a A-55G  -----------it's a bit smoother ------but the K55V you have is pretty good ,  even if it is the push button version--PWK  even showed the difference was subtle to the ears -I would buy The A-55G ,  it has gotten a lot of positive reviews , and none were negATIVE
 

My mistake. Yup, the A-55G.


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[OO1]

2 minutes ago, baron167 said:

Thank you. I have had these sealed into my corners for years. I have changed room acoustics, seating positions, preamp and amplification. I've never been unhappy with their sound or performance, but being all original, I think I need to make a move in refreshing or replacing the crossovers as my first step in improvements --

you can use an ohmmeter or an ESR meter to check the leakage of your caps------in all your speakers ----

[ClaudeJ1]

8 hours ago, baron167 said:

What makes them different from my current K-55-V drivers? Thanks


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Dual phase plugs vs. single phase plugs. Honestly, I would not bother, since PWK himself, in his Dope From Hope newsletters, said "they make a prettier curve" but he doubted most people could ever hear the difference. I measured the soldered vs. push connector versions of the K55s mounted on a K600 Cornwall horn lens...................conclusion? There's not a dime's worth of difference. The turquoise curve is the K55 with solder lugs. If you decide to buy a new crossover, then just keep your K55's and get Bob Crites 4500 version. Or just get new capacitors and a CHOKE to your existing AA midrange section. No matter how bad they look, the inductors and T2A Autoformers dont' go bad over time, unlike the "cans" capacitors, which I guarantee you, are bad. You can just replace them with Dayton Audio Polyesters and you are set for life. When you do, the midrange clarity will astound you. Also, I highly recommend replacing the tweeters with DaveA's sMAHL horn lenses with B&C DE-120 compression drivers. 2020 model Klipschorns now have a similar driver.