Jump to content

prodj not prod! get it right please!


prodj101
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 107
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Ahh, gotta love my psycho AP english teacher to give us the wrong definition of our SAT words. Of course, she did think her husband could tell the future because this one time he was on stage at a play and a sand bag rope broke and a pole slammed into his head and somehow his watch's electrical circuitry blew... and she also thought that she was "Queen Hera, Mistress of the Peacocks"...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

----------------

Justin said;

she did think her husband could tell the future because this one time he was on stage at a play and a sand bag rope broke and a pole slammed into his head and somehow his watch's electrical circuitry blew... and she also thought that she was "Queen Hera, Mistress of the Peacocks"...

----------------

LOL 9.gif

Justin,

Definition courtesy of dictionary.com

Regards,

Greg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hey HDBR my gggrandfather was at chickamaugua as well! general james blair steedman, I guess he was coronel then though and I guess he was on the other side though, huh? he spent a lot of time in tennessee it turns out was in the battle of nashville as well. regards, tony

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sunny---Steedman was a division commander in The Army of The Cumberland and a hero of Chickamauga. As Thomas's right on Snodgrass Ridge was under intense pressure from Longstreet and ready to collapse Steedman came up double-quick from the reserve. Thomas ordered Steedman to counter-attack on the right. Steedman quickly alingned his division in a 4 rank formation of great striking power and then led his division from the front, carrying the flag of one of his Illinois regiments. The counter-attack went in like a bolt of lightning and the Rebels were driven from a position they'd gained on the ridge and were chased pell-mell down into the hollow. Thomas's front was stabilized and held until Thomas withdrew that afternoon under heavy pressure from Longstreet and Polk. The Army of The Cumberland was battered but intact and soon enough got it's revenge at Missionary Ridge.

At Nashville Steedman again commanded a division and was the far left of Thomas's army. Steedman supplied the left-jabs that held Hood in place and set Hood up for the roundhouse rights that crushed his army. The United States Colored Troops in the battle were under Steedman's command.

Steedman was a VERY good soldier and Thomas, one of the finest soldiers who ever fought for The United States, considered Steedman the best division commander that ever served him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

thanks tom for that information, I was partially named after him, anthony steedman zorn...I also read that he was named provisional governor of georgia right after the war and was posited as secretary of war by lincoln but that was later withdrawn due to some sort of controversy (held hostage in cuba...some such nonsense)...my father, who served in WWII, often told me stories about our family deriving from good soldier's stock, seems he really did contribute during the war. thanks again for the information, tony

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tom,

Anybody can sit around and debate the "what-ifs" of history...but that will never change anything. And to say that the western armies of the union were the "first team" is rather erroneous when you see what forces they were up against. It takes much more than men and commanders of equal ability to win in a conflict...it takes EQUIPMENT and SUPPLIES on a par with each other to decide who was the better force that was engaged in any conflict, and the fact is...almost all of those Confederate forces in the west were ill-equipped at best to carry on the engagements as well as they actually did fight them! Especially up and down the Mississippi River! Flintlocks were no match for modern caplocks of that day, and the vast majority of the Southern forces in the west were equipped with them! Prior to the war, the best of stored military equipment had been carefully moved east of the Appalachians by none other than Jeff Davis himself, in anticipation of the upcoming conflict!! Once the Mississippi was under Union control, the breadbasket of the western Confederacy(Arkansas) was no longer able to provide its foodstuffs to the forces that so badly needed them. By the time the "first team"(as you tend to put it) finally got a chance to engage with the ANV, it was only a shadowy semblence of its former self. The former western army of the confederacy (Army of the Tennessee)had been led to slaughter by an opium-laden Hood with his useless, and wasteful frontal assault philosophy of carrying out any engagement. By late 1863, all the Union really needed was a commander who was not overly cautious with which to take Richmond and end the war....since EVERY ADVANTAGE NEEDED by ANY army was on their side by then! It is amazing to me, that the ANV lasted as long as it DID! And a tribute to "Marse Robert", who by that time was doing good to be able to even sit Traveller, much less command an Army effectively(his health was pretty much shot BEFORE Gettysburg!)! Grant was NEVER a genius of a leader...but he WAS one who didn't back-off! As long as he had bodies to commit to battle, he kept driving forward, by sheer weight of numerical superiority. His barrel of men and war materiel was bottomless...that of the South was already empty! Whenever Grant encountered a setback during engagements, he just said "tomorow we will do better"...because he had the men and materiel to make that happen!...unlike his adversaries. Grant fought as a commander the same way he carried on in business...until he either achieved a success, OR ran out of assets! In the war, he didn't run out of assets...in business, he continually did!

As for Jackson being accused of doing something stupid when he got shot...even today, the leader's recon is one of the most important aspects involved in the decision-making process prior to drawing up the final battle operations order! So...what he was doing was FAR from stupid, it was instead the RIGHT THING TO DO!! It is just sad that it cost him his life when he was attempting to make his passage of lines rearward, and was shot by a nervous guard!

As for compaing anybody to Julius Caesar...I would never do that...since I deem julius Caesar more of a politician than a great field commander! LOL! Now...if you want to talk about Hannibal, then that's a COMPLETELY different story!! LOL! In many ways, there are parallels of what Hannibal did on the Italian peninsula, and what Lee did in his own Area of Operations.

When the news reporters were talking about 9/11, and stated that more lives were lost on American soil due to belligerent action there in one day than in any day in our history...they obviously had never heard of Antietam!!

Being a historian, it is hard for me to just look at one side's story in any conflict. Because there are always TWO (or more) sides to any issue. The difficult part of history is that all-to-often, the only viewpoint one can readily find is the viewpoint from the winning side, since the winners write the story. If one digs hard enough, though, one can get a good view of both sides in many instances. Since Lee passed away BEFORE he could write his OWN memoirs, the best chance we have today of seeing the conflict through HIS eyes is the compilation of what he was in the process of gathering up when his demise occurred...which was thrown together and published as his memoirs, by his former Military Secretary, Brigadier General A.L. Long. Give it a read sometime, it is an invaluable insight into the man! Memoirs of Robert E. Lee, by A.L. Long

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Builder---The Western Rebels were well enough equipped. When Grant captured Vicksburg he also captured over 30,000 new Enfield rifle-muskets. Entire brigades of Grant's army, till then armed with muskets and crummy Austrian rifle-muskets, rearmed themselves with the modern Enfields.

Grant had only a handful of engineering oficers at Vicksburg and no proper mortars. For heavy artillery Porter lent Grant heavy guns from Federal gunboats. Grant was outnumbered by Pemberton and Johnston when he crossed the river to invest Vicksburg, you can't simply blame Federal resources for Rebel defeat.

The Western Yankees of AotC and AotT were the Yankee first team, the results clearly show it. The Westerners went from victory to victory and defeated all the Confederate commanders sent their way: A.S. Johnston, Baueregard, Bragg, Van Dorn, Joe Johnston and Hood. All went down as the Westerners lopped the Confederacey apart piece by piece until all that was left of it was the ground that Lee's and Johnston's armies actually stood on. Note that Joe Johnston remarked about Sherman's army that no such army had existed since Caesar. He also told Jefferson Davis that the Northwestern Yankees were worth twice their number of Eastern men. This eveidently explains Johnston's timidity in Mississippi and Georgia. :-)

I try not to be too hard on Hood, at least he wanted to fight. Problem was that fighting Thomas and Sherman in 64 wasn't fighting McClellan in 62. But he tried. To tell you the truth I don't know what any Confederate commander could have done against Sherman's army group. If you stand you're flanked, if you fall back you lose ground, if you fight offensively you get whipped. Not a good situation. Hood's Tennessee campaign was a desperate move but it was time for desperate moves. But no way could he hope to deal with Thomas.

Hannibal was a great tactician but never developed a strategy for beating Rome, maybe nobody could have. If you can't appreciate Caesar's generalship in Gaul and in the Civil War there's not much to say. Caesar had grand strategic sense, a good grasp of tactics, the ability to identify his enemy's weak spot and move there fast, indeed Caesar moved VERY fast. He also inspired loyalty and devotion in his troops. Caesar had it all.

I hope we ain't boring the other guys but I'll take my history arguements wherever I can get them. :-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hannibal was in a strange situation. He did not have a force large enough to occupy a defeated Italian peninsula, his best hope was to wear down the Roman will to continue in its struggle with Carthage. He could not hope to get across the sea for a direct assault on the peninsula, so he had to take the long way around. His battles on the peninsula showed his superior ability in tactical decision-making, especially in his ability to use terrain and camouflage to his advantage. But alas, each time he thoroughly defeated an imperial army, another one was gathered up to throw against him. Not only that, but he had too-far extended his supply lines, and while he was in Italy, Rome was infesting his native land. His effort was a gallant, but futile attempt to solve once and for all who would end up with the major wheat-growing-regions(at that time) of Sicily and Sardinia. And Rome ended up with them for good!

Caesar's greatest ability was in his political savvy, not in his strategic or tactical expertise. He was an expert at playing off one tribe against another, using their distrust of each other to keep them from effectively uniting against him as he did his conquering in Gaul. You must understand that our best PERIOD written source for his actions there were his very own communiques sent back to Rome of his exploits there. These are an excellent source of reading(Caesar's Gallic War), but one must keep in mind they had an ulterior motive in being sent from the very beginning. They were basically praises to himself disguised as "news from the front." And they were full of lies about the size of the enemy forces he was defeating. This was to gain favor of the people of Rome for his later political ambitions. Another example of his prowess in the political arena was his ability to easily set-up various alliances among other Roman military commanders by gaining their trust...in order to achieve his needs, then his turning them against each other afterwards so that they would be easy pickings for himself! Yes he was a great military man, but it was more in his ability as a politician than in any military genius for tactical operations.

As for the equipment that the Confederates actually had...sure...a few units had Enfield muskets early on in the war, but there were far more units that had nothing more than spears with bridle hooks, so that they could take out a cavalryman and get a real weapon to use. These were generally the reserves for the unit commanders, and they depended on whatever they could scavenge from the battlefield in order to arm themselves...especially in the west! As with anything, one must have a good appreciation of the "order of battle" for the units which fought on BOTH sides in order to get the complete picture. Much of this info can be found at Ole Miss for the Confederate forces, up until the severe paper shortage of late 1862 forward limited the records being kept in the Confederacy.

There has never been a good work written for this, which gives enough detail, and I doubt that there ever will be...too much info was never recorded, and alot of it has been lost over time.

Hell, it wasn't even until the mid-1980's that the German Army order of battle for WWII was even written, and almost ALL the documentation for it has been available for compilation ever since the end of the war. (I am friends with the author of that book, by the way...Samuel L. "Sandy" Mitchum, title: "Hitler's Legions". He has a few other handy books he has written about that conflict, too! "Men of the Luftwaffe" is a real eye opener...and he did three books on Rommel, among his other accomplishements...he is also a guest professor at the USMA in the summers quite often. When I took a pre-publishing copy of "Hitler's Legions" to FT Benning as a donation to the library there for Sandy, it was immediately grabbed-up, and the results were a few changes in the coursework for "examples of battlefield successes in tactical operations" after they had a better idea of the REAL make-up in personnel and equipment of the units we were up against in certain operations in WWII...LOL!).

As with any fish story, the one who catches the fish tends to embellish it a bit more with each telling of the story...and so it is with the winners in war!! Keep that in mind! 2.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

pRODj- Are you still awake???!!!

Now this is turning into a good thread!!!!

I mention a one little comment about military history and we got a damn Civil War recreation on our hands.

You've heard of A-Rod (Alex Rodriguez), well how about P-Rod!

Please read carefully there will be a test to follow.

Very interesting stuff. I really wonder what would have happened to Europe in WWII if the US stayed home and Nazi Germany were allowed to have its way with the rest of Europe? I wonder if the US had tons of war protestors back then?

Gregorius- I thought it had some deeper meaning.....way to roll with it and be a good sport!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Builder--Several years ago a fella wrote a book called "Arming the Suckers" which gave the arms used by every Illinois regiment in the war. For instamce the 100th Illinois, raised in 1862 in Will county, was originally armed with Austrian rifle-muskets and fought with them at Stones River. But in the early summer of 63 they were rearmed with Enfields and were armed with them the rest of the war.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Holy smorgasbord Batman! Prodj> get over it! !!! My last name is Kropiewnicki and NO ONE can say it and spell it right. Ranger Six> I am afraid it is time for you to sit in the "comfy chair" and be tickled with "soft pillows". So you weren't expecting thew Spanish inquisition? No one expects the Spanish inquisition!!!!! To all with a sense and awareness of history, bravo!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just think of you as prod because when you are getting a little upity, I just like to give you a little whack with a cattle prod.

HEHE

Lighten up

Just joking

Try being born in 1960 as Richard Jr. and having everyone call you "Dickie" until you are 13...YIKES it sucked.

Nice Civil War discussion, the war in the west is one aspect I have not studied enough.

The battlegrounds are errie even today a century and a half later. Someone just reminded me last week no one visits Gettysbug at night.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tom,

one of the biggest problems the Confederate army had was the government it was under! LOL! Because it was a confederation in the strictist sense, the Governors/legislatures of the states within it had ultimate control over what was sent from their respective states to aid in the war effort.

For example: Georgia's governor had over 100,000 COMPLETE uniforms(with spare shoes) stashed away in warehouses scattered about the state at the end of the war. These uniforms were strictly governed in their issuance, and were SOLELY for the use of soldiers recruited from Georgia and for Georgia's units. Sherman's boys destroyed a huge number of these warehouses as they swept across Georgia, but they also kept a tally of what they were destroying. Vast supplies of arms and equipment were scattered throughout the eastern states of the Confederacy, but whenever a call went out to the governors of these states for uniforms and equipment, they were answered with a resounding "NO"!! It is shameful that an army was so very ill-equipped for the task at hand, while politicians played their games in the backround and allowed it to happen!

Here is one for the historical record!!: Pine Bluff, AR, 1862: The largest amount of money and homespun cloth donated for the purchase and sewing of uniforms for confederate units from that area in that year(over half of what was donated!!) was happily donated to the cause by local area SLAVES!!! A true story from the local newspaper archives there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

----------------

On 12/14/2002 10:20:56 AM Audio Flynn wrote:

I just think of you as prod because when you are getting a little upity, I just like to give you a little whack with a cattle prod.

Nice Civil War discussion, the war in the west is one aspect I have not studied enough.

The battlegrounds are errie even today a century and a half later. Someone just reminded me last week no one visits Gettysbug at night.

----------------

Yes, prod can be a foul mouth uppity cuss at times, but he seems to be chilling out (for now).

I'm with you regarding the war in the west. I enjoy history, but I am woefully ignorant to the western campaigns. Battlefields truly can be eerie at night, but I feel a sort of peace or connection to them as I walk the hallowed ground. It's weird, but to me it's my way of showing respect and appreciation for their sacrifice.

Speaking of eerie, behind where my parents live, there is a very old house that is hidden deep deep deep in the woods. Access to the house is via a single lane dirt trail. The trail has a single canopy of trees covering it like a shroud. In the day, it's a beautiful walk to the house, but at night it takes a stout heart to make the journey alone. I once tried to make the walk 10 years ago, but stopped after my dog refused to walk any further. Call me superstitious, but you don't have to tell me twice. 6.gif Built in 1740, the home, up until recently, belonged to a prominent tobacco family. With the exception of an occasional coat of paint, it retains much of its original look. Not many are aware of its existence, because it's privately owned, completely surrounded by a forest, and vacant most of the year. To me, it is truly a diamond in the ruff. This house is the birthplace of President Madison, which many refer to as the Father of our Constitution. One day, I intend to own that house, however living there is another matter - too spooky for me (if you know that house the way I do you would understand why).

I've attached a picture of this beautiful house.

post-9658-1381924581455_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


×
×
  • Create New...