Kain Posted January 1, 2003 Share Posted January 1, 2003 When an amplifier clips, what does it sound like? Meaning what kind of sound does the speaker put out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted January 1, 2003 Author Share Posted January 1, 2003 By the way, if a speaker "pops" or "farts," is that related to amplifier clipping? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted January 1, 2003 Share Posted January 1, 2003 Popping is usually the driver being driven with too much power causing the voice coil to hit the back of the magnet structure. Initially, clipping sounds like a hardening of the sound and it will often sound brighter because the squared off waves have lots of HF content. Heavy clipping will begin to sound like the rhythm guitar in Van Halen's "Running with the Devil". He uses a square wave generating distortion box in that song. In car audio, clipping is always accompanied by tremendous harmonic distortion, so the "farting" description is perhaps correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted January 1, 2003 Share Posted January 1, 2003 This clipping subject bothers me a lot. I understand the low power amp with efficient speakers idea that is often brought up as being THE way to listen, but doesn't that depend on the music. If I understand clipping right, it occurs when the demand for power exceeds the ability of the output stage or power supply to fulfil that demand. You in that case end up with a clipped waveform out in other words the top and bottom of the waveform will just not be present at the output or if you have 5 watts available and the music demands 10 watts you will just get the 5 watts and lots of distortion. That is simplified I know, if the power demand is brief, the 5 watt amp might be capable of 10 or more watts very briefly. Let me give you an example of this: With my LaScallas driven by 80 watts of SS power per channel, I put on "An American Trilogy" by Elvis Presley. Many more songs could be used but that one is a good example of a bunch of dynamic range. If I set the volume to give me about 90 db on peaks at my listening position at the beginning of that song, the db meter will read over 110 db at about 1:30 into the song. Could that song or another one like it even be faithfuly played on a low power amp? Not trying to start a fight, just wondering if anyone else has looked into this. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasN00b Posted January 1, 2003 Share Posted January 1, 2003 80 watts really isnt that much power, if you think about the 1kw monoblocks used by some, 80 watts is nothing. plus keep in mind, tube amps are rated with much lower wattage because of the way they work, so a 10 watt tube amp wont drive a speaker 1/8th as powerfully as your SS amp is. -------------- also, what about when certain sounds, namly that of the "s" sound when sung becomeing very harsh. is that clipping? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodj101 Posted January 1, 2003 Share Posted January 1, 2003 80 watts is ALOT of power. I've had my SF-2's up to about 45-50 watts, and it was uncomfortable to listen to, by a long ways. I mean you could even be in the room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted January 1, 2003 Share Posted January 1, 2003 Well, let's give this a whirl. When a ss amp runs to the point of clipping, it does so hard and fast - the sound will change - and start to sound pinched or compressed. From what I have heard about tube amps, ( no experience firsthand ) is that if pushed into clipping, it is not as noticable, ie: softer? for lack of a better word. Eighty watts is quite a bit, IF you have loudspeakers with a high sensitivity. For some of those speakers with a sensitivity of umm... 85 db/ 1w, 80 watts would net you roughly 103 db. If you had klipschorns, with a sensitivity of 104db/1w, you could achieve the same volume with a little less than 1 watt. If you fed 128 watts into those same k-horns, you would be up to 125db. With the less efficient speakers, you would need in the neighbourhood of 8,192 watts to play as loud as k-horns with a 128 watt drive level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 My scott 299a tube amp 18 watts per channel, at 3:00 on the volume dial peaks about 105db without any clipping, just undestorted, non fatiqueing awesome mids, highs, and natural extended bass. I havent pushed it beyond this only becouse the room doesnt allow for clean sound beyond this volume level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Distortation sounds like noise, but you do not hear it unless the amp is clipping (everything is being distorted, not just the peaks). Then it sounds loud, hard, harsch, sharp ... like a rock concert. On most receivers, it used to be that if your dial was past 12:00, you were in clipping territory. I assunme that this is still true today. 80 watts is or isnt a lot of power depending on the impedance curve, the loudspeaker sensitivity, the average volume level and the decibel range of the recording. If your loudspeaker dips low or has sharp curves or many dips, 80 watts may NOT seem like a lot of power. A well-built 20-watt amplifier would be better suited. I would rather put my low powered Class A amplifier on a B&W loudspeaker than a flimsy 100-watt modern day off the shelf receiver. If your loudspeaker is typical sensitivity, 84 to 86 dB/w/m, some of the momentary music peaks at loud volume levels averaging in the mid-90 dBs will require hundreds, possibly even thousands of watts. C-weighted musical peaks on CDs are about 15dB higher than the average content. Yet brief musical peaks at live events, even acoustic orchestras, can reach momentary peaks of 130-dB, (which why SACD and DVD-A would be nice, if they actually used that dynamic capability). If your average volume level for loud music is in the mid-90s, you will need amplifier power to reproduce average, not momentary, music peaks some 15 dBs above that. Not at one meter away either, but at your listening spot, some two or three meters away. Not in a large dampened room either, but in a too bright and at the same time overly dampened living room with windows, floors, shelves and doors. In practice, if the total output of my Bottlehead 2A3 Paramours is actually something like 6-watts, regardless of THD, and the volume control of my pre-amplifier does represent the actual amount of power sent to the loudspeakers, then my big old horns (rated at 104-dB/w/m) actually use about 1.5 watts most of the time to recreate average volume levels in the mid-70s at my listening spot. With the dial at 12:00 (about three watts), it is more than loud enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invidiosulus Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 I figure I can get about 110dB with 20 watts into my Heresies. The Heresies are(to my knowledge) the least sensitive of the heritage speakers. With my figgerin a LaScala would hit 110dB with about 8 watts input. The only times I have my heresies this loud is when watching star wars episode II AOTC, the asteroid chase is my favorite. Peace, Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 (((OLD THREAD ALERT))) I just learned what amp clipping is!... Just finished watching Shrek again and just figured out what the horrible speaker rattling/distortion is all about. This "clipping" of the amplifier is quite an obvious noise. The Denon as a pre and and this old Sonograph 120 watt amp is showing it's capabilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Thank god this is an old thread. For a second I thought Kain was back..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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