playntheblues Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 YAHOOOOOOOOOOOO I have just purchased a pair of oak 1987 Klipschorns from the original owner. After reading alot of your reviews here and talking with the seller of these Klipschorns I am trying to find the best amp/preamp units for the money. The seller has told me that he went through alot of tube amps. and because of the sensitivity of the Klipschorn he could not get rid of the hum produced by high end tube amps??????? So I called Al with ALK and he recommends a Mcintosh ss mc250 at 50 watts a side. I was looking forward to hearing that tube magic with these speakers. Is there something to this hum that is produced by tube amps.? I have been looking at Antique sound Labs, Zen, Audio Electronic supply, Cary, Welboune and bottlehead. I am not a tube roller nor do I plan to endlessly tweak on my system. I would like to purchase the right amp. and preamp the first time. Reselling and shipping is alot of hassel for me. With that in mind what are your suggestions??????? As always thanks and all the best, Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 I would go the SET route. You can build a pair of Billie 300B Monoblocks for about 1K. Get a pair of TJ Meshplate 300b's and you are 'SET' to go. The best pre-amp that I have heard is the Van Alstine Transcendence 7 pre-amp. Randy Bey heard mine with his K-Horns and Welborne 300b's and liked it very much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 You could also get a pair of used Wrights (SET 3.5 WPA) for less than a grand. I agree that SET is the way to go. A used pair of Moondogs would be preferred but they're as rare as hen's teeth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 The Consonance stuff is nice. I thought they only came in kit form? Hard to go wrong with the Wright's. If I had K-horns, and was looking for bang for the buck -- that's probably the direction I would go in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Nobody's mentioned the fabulous Phase Linear 400 combined with the equally awesome model 4000 preamp. I think this would be the ULTIMATE combonation with K-Horns (or any super high-efficiency speaker). It would CERTAINLY not have that "Cary house sound." Sorry, I'm tired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Congrats on the fabulous Klipschorns! I am very impressed that AI from ALK recommended the McIntosh MC250...it's the very SS amp I drive my Cornwalls with, and does so beautifully! This amp is the most tube-like SS amp I've ever heard, and I'm totally satisfied with this combo. Unfortunantly, I'm still new to the valve magic...I owned an AMC CVT1030s vacuum tube preamp which sounded damn good to my ears; made all my sources sound lush and warm, full-bodied without being tubby (property taxes forced me to sell it and other components). With my tube preamp, background was totally black and silent (no hum), and that was with a pair of 12AU7 and 12AX7WA bottleheads! I agree, you definately need a tube amp (someday I'll go that route as well), but I'm not qualified to assist you on that subject just yet...I'll leave that to the pros on this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 ---------------- On 1/3/2003 8:16:06 PM Allan Songer wrote: "Nobody's mentioned the fabulous Phase Linear 400 combined with the equally awesome model 4000 preamp. I think this would be the ULTIMATE combonation with K-Horns (or any super high-efficiency speaker)..." ---------------- Allen, Before I had the Mac amp, I owned a Carver TFM-35x amp and a Carver C-4000 preamp working their magic through my Cornwalls. The very first time I heard two pairs of Klipschorns back in '80, the pairs were powered by two Carver M-500t power amps and the C-4000 preamp...that, too, was a sweet combo! Now that I think about it, I wonder why I ever sold that equipment in the first place (I wanted something different, but I should've kept what I had...it was perfectly fine and sounded fantastic)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playntheblues Posted January 3, 2003 Author Share Posted January 3, 2003 Thanks everybody, I enjoy reading all of your thoughts here. If will be a good week end. I will have some home work to do on amp. pre amp. units, but one must enjoy the jouney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playntheblues Posted January 3, 2003 Author Share Posted January 3, 2003 once agian an after thought..... I understand that a good SET amp. with 3.5 watts will power these babys just fine, but being from the school of head room is a good thing. I would think that 20 watts would allow one enough head room for bass and peaks etc. etc. and I wrong in this assumption????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 At 104db - 3.5 watts is all you'll need! - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 I'm under the assumption that you should have some headroom available for moments in musical passages that peak beyond a few watts...that's why I have a 50 WPC amp (before that I had a 200 WPC amp, but I guess that was overkill for my Cornwalls...that Mac MC7200 was originally for my Magnepans). But I'm no expert on these matters, so I'll let the pros on this forum help you out on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Neither of my speakers has the efficiency of the KHorns and I could never be in the same room with either one using over 5 Watts. Both my current homebrew amps top out at about 8 Watts and I'm building a pair of Moondogs that put out 3.5 Watts. I'm not worried that the Moondogs will fall short on power. leok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 After all this time, it has finally sunk in that with horns -- "watts" has almost no relevance at all. It means practically nothing. I guess if you have a listening room the size of a gymnasium -- you might want to go with 8 watts. This was posted by jnorv in the cable thread on the previous page. It's from an interview with Bruce Edgar. "We've done power measurements with the horn system, and for the most part, the system will loaf along at a couple of hundred milliwatts of power. In fact, it's very hard to get a watt into it. A good loud sound level is only about 50 milliwatts in acoustical power. People have a hard time comprehending this, but actually air is a pretty poor conductor of sound. In fact, a jet airplane engine is essentially 1 acoustical watt. A loud sound in a living room is about 50 milliwatts. Well, if you have a horn speaker system that's maybe 25% efficient, the amp only has to deliver 200 milliwatts to the speakers, which corresponds pretty much to what I've measured. It's amazing how little power goes into a horn system, and I think that somewhat explains why wiring makes a difference. If you just have copper wire, the amplifier sees a very low resistant path to the speakers. When you start putting other metals like silver and copper together, you may see contact potentials between different types of metals at these very low power levels. When we tried silver, it seemed to have a colored sound" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invidiosulus Posted January 4, 2003 Share Posted January 4, 2003 A twenty watt amp on a pair of klipschorns should give you about 119dB. Imho, 119dB is rather LOUD. Peace, Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted January 4, 2003 Share Posted January 4, 2003 yes grasshopper, forget about watts. forget about specs. the only truism here is 'pounds per watt'. quality does not come lightly. i for one value simplicity. you may not have the same value system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pland Posted January 4, 2003 Share Posted January 4, 2003 Hi, Call Don Garber at Fi,and get him to build you a Fi X 2a3 amp with gain control and source selector.Request the Magnequest transformers and the Sovtek 2a3's.This amp is direct transormer coupled,and a heartbreaker sonically.Sounds like a musical instrument rather than HiFi.Should cost around 1200-1500.00. You could stop changing amps forever with this one. Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornwaller Posted January 4, 2003 Share Posted January 4, 2003 Deang, I am soooo happy that somebody actually thought to point out the difference between 'electrical watts' and "aucustic watt"! ( note the singularity?) I'm afraid that this will fall upon deaf ears though--now if everybody had the gear to measure speaker output and then correlate this with the amount of current coming thru the leads; it would be a more perfect world. The Chior has been living on less than a watt for a long time... Cornwaller P.S. Hey Pland! Who, what is Fi???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted January 4, 2003 Share Posted January 4, 2003 I am surprised that I am the first to mention this. If you are looking for a lot of bang for really low bucks, look at the scott integrated units, rebuilt by Craig (NOZ440). I just got mine yesterday and it sounds awesome. you can get a unit on ebay for $100-$200 then another $300 or so for rebuild and your ready to go. If you are looking in the SET price range, then that is the way to go. But if you want amp and preamp (ie integrated unit) for $500 or so that sounds great, this is a really good alternative. I think that Deang still has one for sale. Chris By the way, I was worried about the mere 25 watts. I really don't want to turn it past halfway on the volume (I am using K-horns too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted January 4, 2003 Share Posted January 4, 2003 yes, there is a chance to get off the upgrade merry-go-round, at least as far as speakers and amps are concerned, if you get a good amp to go with your speakers. The Fi has gotten good reviews, and at that price is a no-brainer. As much as I like the idea of vintage gear, it is not a placebo, IMHO. High on bang for the buck, yes, but not the last word in amps, either. You want to buy once, not over and over. Get a quality amp, do it once, be done with it. Then you can save the merry-go-round for your source equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pland Posted January 4, 2003 Share Posted January 4, 2003 Hi, Don Garber is one of the first and most talented SET builders in the U.S. The X amp is a 2A3,tube rectified,direct coupled amp shaped like an X when viewed from above.The maximum wire length internally from point to point is about 2 inches,all silver wired in the signal path.A real work of art.He builds them to order,and usually the waiting period is several months.His company name is "Fi",no website,you have to call him on the phone. Trust me ,he's one of the greats,and his amps are incredible. Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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