Advice for the newly addicted.

[Islander]

A turntable is not essential, it's just one more source of music.  You might want to pick up a good Blu-ray player so you can hear your CDs properly.  I've got a 2005 vintage DVD player and a 2017 vintage Blu-ray player, and my CDs sound very noticeably clearer and better on the newer unit.  Electronic improvements are happening all the time, so newer gear definitely sounds better in most cases.  There are dedicated CD players, but the multi-format players don't give anything up to them, unless you're talking really big bucks.  And you can watch movies and concerts on them.

[nick89rs]

Half of the first floor is open room design.   The ceilings are also exposed joist and almost 20 feet tall at the center.   If anything it seems like a sort of ideal room for speakers of this nature to breathe and fill the space.  I suspect the seating is a little off from the sweet spot and could used to be backed up another 2-3 feet but theres a kitchen island in the way and im not sure i know the difference anyway. Like i said this is truly a first foray into quality sounding music.

[nick89rs]

31 minutes ago, Islander said:

A turntable is not essential, it's just one more source of music.  You might want to pick up a good Blu-ray player so you can hear your CDs properly.  I've got a 2005 vintage DVD player and a 2017 vintage Blu-ray player, and my CDs sound very noticeably clearer and better on the newer unit.  Electronic improvements are happening all the time, so newer gear definitely sounds better in most cases.  There are dedicated CD players, but the multi-format players don't give anything up to them, unless you're talking really big bucks.  And you can watch movies and concerts on them.

Ill do just that this weekend.  Thank you for the advice, i truly appreciate it!

[Emile]

1 hour ago, nick89rs said:

Alexa in the kitchen has been the sole provider of music for the last 5-6 years

Wow ... you have missed a lot of "music." Congrats on the Khorns  

[Islander]

43 minutes ago, nick89rs said:

Half of the first floor is open room design.   The ceilings are also exposed joist and almost 20 feet tall at the center.   If anything it seems like a sort of ideal room for speakers of this nature to breathe and fill the space.  I suspect the seating is a little off from the sweet spot and could used to be backed up another 2-3 feet but theres a kitchen island in the way and im not sure i know the difference anyway. Like i said this is truly a first foray into quality sounding music.

 

Yes, the high ceilings can make for great sound.  Klipsch recommends a minimum ceiling height of 8.5 feet for Klipschorns, and I think that's the only one of the company's speakers with a height recommendation, probably because they're so tall.  You're doing pretty great for a beginner, with very fine speakers and a fine room for them to play in.  Anything else in your system takes second place to those two things.  Actually, third place, with two winners in front.

 

[grindstone]

I just gotta believe PWK is smiling somewhere...I am, too.  Congrats on your new phase of life and kudos to you for having the foresight to put them in corners where they belong when you tried them... 

[babadono]

Welcome to horn loaded bass.....Congrats on the KHorns...Enjoy.

Do yourself a favor and get some pipe insulation and install along the tophat bottom plate and the edges of the tailboard then get those babies really snug into the corners. Remember the corner of your room is the last fold of the bass horn.

 

Edit: I am assuming these are an older pair and do not have enclosed backs.

[Islander]

9 hours ago, babadono said:

Welcome to horn loaded bass.....Congrats on the KHorns...Enjoy.

Do yourself a favor and get some pipe insulation and install along the tophat bottom plate and the edges of the tailboard then get those babies really snug into the corners. Remember the corner of your room is the last fold of the bass horn.

 

Edit: I am assuming these are an older pair and do not have enclosed backs.

 

He’s got that figured already.  The backs are notched to clear the baseboard.

[Islander]

14 hours ago, nick89rs said:

Ill do just that this weekend.  Thank you for the advice, i truly appreciate it!

 

Keep in mind that you’re assembling a premium system.  Don’t bother with the cheap players, because they’ll contain cheaper components, like DACs, that are important for good sound.  Unless you’re a lottery winner, you build your system like most of us, one or two pieces at a time.  Choose each purchase well, and you’ll improve your sound every time, with no weak links you wasted any money on.  Good luck on your quest for excellent sound.

[nick89rs]

1 hour ago, Islander said:

 

Keep in mind that you’re assembling a premium system.  Don’t bother with the cheap players, because they’ll contain cheaper components, like DACs, that are important for good sound.  Unless you’re a lottery winner, you build your system like most of us, one or two pieces at a time.  Choose each purchase well, and you’ll improve your sound every time, with no weak links you wasted any money on.  Good luck on your quest for excellent sound.

Yeah my partner also pointed that out.  Ill shop around some. 

Right now the plan is just to take everyones advice and just live with them for a while.  We are starting to notice some peculiarities.  Having the speakers make us feel like we are ON a rooftop with the beatles or shake the room with bass on a flowrida track is incredible but somehow Freddie Mercury sounds like hes is singing to us through a tin can with a string (an exaggeration but it was not good).  All from recordings that are of equal quality according to the app so that makes me feel like im excited for the crossovers to come so i can see if that makes a difference or if i need to start tracking down possible issues.  

 

Edited September 8, 2022 by nick89rs

[ODS123]

On 9/5/2022 at 11:57 PM, nick89rs said:

My question is is it criminal to push these amazing speakers with such an entry level amp? Can i see another jump in performance with a budget of maybe 2k?  where do i start and are there any recommendations?

 

No, there is nothing wrong with it. ..In fact, so long as the amp is operating within it's design limits - which it almost certainly is - it is highly unlikely you would hear ANY improvement by moving to a pricier amp.

 

My advice Nick:

 

if you have a limited budget you should prioritize your spending around speakers, then room treatments...  Any modern day amp that isn't driven into audible distortion - which is unlikely to EVER happen given the high efficiency of your Khorns - is going to sound pretty much like the other.  The sole exception would be boutiquey low-wattage tube amps which are basically engineered to alter the sound.  Which really isn't a very audiophile-thing to do

 

That said, there ARE reasons to spend more on an amp.  For example, better tactile build quality, appearance, features like tone controls, equalizer, mono switch, wattage meters, etc...  ..All of these things can be important, but don't spend more thinking the basic, unaltered signal (ie., no tone controls engaged) will somehow sound different.

 

But don't take my word for it.  Read the following.  Years ago Richard Clark, an Audio professional, devised a $10,000 challenge whereby ANYONE who could reliably (defined as better than chance) distinguish one properly functioning amp from another would take home $10,000.  ..But they had to compare them while "Blinded" from knowing which amp was playing.  NO ONE took home the money.  And thousands of people tried, including audio reviewers and audio obsessives like those here on this forum.    Again, NO ONE took home the money.

 

So spend more if you wish, just don't do it expecting better sound.  And though I don't know for sure, I'm pretty certain Paul W Klipsch himself would agree with this.

 

https://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/193850-richard-clark-10000-amplifier-challenge/

 

[ODS123]

My advice Pt 2

 

Regarding turntables.

 

To me, vinyl is a great format b/c of the rich liner note content, the album art, lyrics printed on the sleeves, etc.. ..Even the hassle of advancing to a specific song, or flipping the album side contribute to making the format great because it encourages the listener to listen to the entirety of the album and thereby grasp the connectedness of the songs and (possibly) the theme of the album. 

 

But does it sound better? No....  Vinyl is noisy, has limited dynamic range, high levels of wow and flutter (so you'll hear piano notes wander - particularly on belt-drive tables) and is very sensitive to vibration.  ..Can it sound great?  Yep!  ..But better? ..No.  unless you compare a remastered vinyl record to a poorly mixed original CD.  ..But then it's the remix that improved the sound, not the format.

 

This isn't meant to discourage you from getting into vinyl. On the contrary.  Vinyl is great!  ..It's awesome to pour over a 50 year old album cover with it's artwork, liner notes, posters, concert pics, etc...  as you listen to the music.  ..Plus finding treasures at flea markets, neighbors basements, etc...  ..And it can sound great.  ...But not better.

[Islander]

7 hours ago, nick89rs said:

Yeah my partner also pointed that out.  Ill shop around some. 

Right now the plan is just to take everyones advice and just live with them for a while.  We are starting to notice some peculiarities.  Having the speakers make us feel like we are ON a rooftop with the beatles or shake the room with bass on a flowrida track is incredible but somehow Freddie Mercury sounds like hes is singing to us through a tin can with a string (an exaggeration but it was not good).  All from recordings that are of equal quality according to the app so that makes me feel like im excited for the crossovers to come so i can see if that makes a difference or if i need to start tracking down possible issues.  

 

 

The new crossovers should help the sound, for one reason alone:  the capacitors.  Everything else in the crossovers, the transformers and so on, lasts indefinitely, but the caps do have a useful life, often around thirty years.  When I replaced the caps in the crossovers of my 32-year-old La Scalas, there was an immediate improvement in clarity, because then the crossovers were back within brand-new spec.

 

Another factor in sound, a very important one, is the source.  Streamed music is usually compressed, often with lossy compression like MP3s, and with a highly resolving system, you may be able to hear the difference.  Some streaming sites may claim “CD-quality” sound, but it’s better to just grab a CD and get genuine CD-quality sound.

[henry4841]

8 minutes ago, ODS123 said:

 ..And it can sound great.  ...But not better.

As we know that can be really debatable with a lots of serious discussions. Vinyl is my first form of source material. Probably has more to do with my age than anything else. The most desirable form to me would be the old master tapes of recordings that the LP's were cut from. As ODS stated lots of love playing an old LP and collecting them is fun in it's own right. LP's sound just really good to me but I was raised on them. 

[henry4841]

52 minutes ago, ODS123 said:

 

No, there is nothing wrong with it. ..In fact, so long as the amp is operating within it's design limits - which it almost certainly is - it is highly unlikely you would hear ANY improvement by moving to a pricier amp.

 

My advice Nick:

 

if you have a limited budget you should prioritize your spending around speakers, then room treatments...  Any modern day amp that isn't driven into audible distortion - which is unlikely to EVER happen given the high efficiency of your Khorns - is going to sound pretty much like the other.  The sole exception would be boutiquey low-wattage tube amps which are basically engineered to alter the sound.  Which really isn't a very audiophile-thing to do

 

That said, there ARE reasons to spend more on an amp.  For example, better tactile build quality, appearance, features like tone controls, equalizer, mono switch, wattage meters, etc...  ..All of these things can be important, but don't spend more thinking the basic, unaltered signal (ie., no tone controls engaged) will somehow sound different.

 

But don't take my word for it.  Read the following.  Years ago Richard Clark, an Audio professional, devised a $10,000 challenge whereby ANYONE who could reliably (defined as better than chance) distinguish one properly functioning amp from another would take home $10,000.  ..But they had to compare them while "Blinded" from knowing which amp was playing.  NO ONE took home the money.  And thousands of people tried, including audio reviewers and audio obsessives like those here on this forum.    Again, NO ONE took home the money.

 

So spend more if you wish, just don't do it expecting better sound.  And though I don't know for sure, I'm pretty certain Paul W Klipsch himself would agree with this.

 

https://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/193850-richard-clark-10000-amplifier-challenge/

 

Pretty much my thoughts as well. These days all the better amplifiers are really good sounding. Not what you would call a bad one in the bunch by any stretch of the imagination. That being said all amplifiers that I have heard sound different in subtle ways. Biggest difference between amps that I know of is the difference in sound of say a single ended amplifier vs a push pull one or possibly throw in the class D ones into the mix since they have been improved a lot the last decade. There you will have two different camps. I enjoy both camps A and A/B  tube or SS but my preference with the kind of music I enjoy is class A single ended whether SS or tube. That is with our Klipsch speakers where you can use both camps. Many other speaker brands one cannot use low powered class A SE amplifiers. SET tube amplifiers with their low power are not recommended for those speakers needing a lot of power to wake up. Perfect for us though and highly desirable in high end audio circles. 

[Shakeydeal]

OP, since you are newbie you should take everything @ODS123 says with a proverbial grain of salt. No, make that a pound of it.

 

Listen for yourself and you'll likely hear two things:

 

1) amps can sound dramatically different from each other

 

2) vinyl played back with a well thought out front end can sound glorious

 

Like I said, listen and let your own hearing tell you what you need to know. You don't need me or some self proclaimed expert on this forum to validate what you can discern for yourself. 

 

 

[henry4841]

21 minutes ago, Shakeydeal said:

OP, since you are newbie you should take everything @ODS123 says with a proverbial grain of salt. No, make that a pound of it.

 

Listen for yourself and you'll likely hear two things:

 

1) amps can sound dramatically different from each other

 

2) vinyl played back with a well thought out front end can sound glorious

 

Like I said, listen and let your own hearing tell you what you need to know. You don't need me or some self proclaimed expert on this forum to validate what you can discern for yourself. 

 

 

I'll take those old analog recorded LP's over the new LP's that were recorded digitally any day of the week. To me the newer LP's are just cashing in on the newer LP beginners. No doubt LP collecting is the in thing with yuppies these day. The reason for the LP comeback. 

[Shakeydeal]

2 minutes ago, henry4841 said:

I'll take those old analog recorded LP's over the new LP's that were recorded digitally any day of the week. To me the newer LP's are just cashing in on the newer LP beginners. No doubt LP collecting is the in thing with yuppies these day. The reason for the LP comeback. 

Agree!

[ODS123]

47 minutes ago, Shakeydeal said:

2) vinyl played back with a well thought out front end can sound glorious

 

Totally!  

[Islander]

1 hour ago, henry4841 said:

I'll take those old analog recorded LP's over the new LP's that were recorded digitally any day of the week. To me the newer LP's are just cashing in on the newer LP beginners. No doubt LP collecting is the in thing with yuppies these day. The reason for the LP comeback. 

 

Don’t you realize that the yuppies are our age, okay my age?  They already have the LPs that we likely have.  There may be a number of yuppies in our select company.  The hipsters and their younger friends are more likely the ones you’re referring to.