How to connect Axi 2050

[diamonddelts]

Joseph Crowe's final opinion of the Celestion Axi 2050 pretty much matches my experience with the driver.

 

https://josephcrowe.com/blogs/news/celestion-axi2050

[jjptkd]

4 hours ago, diamonddelts said:

Joseph Crowe's final opinion of the Celestion Axi 2050 pretty much matches my experience with the driver.

 

https://josephcrowe.com/blogs/news/celestion-axi2050

 

 You happy or no? Does it best the k-691 on the k-510? 

[diamonddelts]

6 hours ago, jjptkd said:

 

 You happy or no? Does it best the k-691 on the k-510? 

I wrote about my impressions on the previous page. I've already returned the Celestion Axi 2050 drivers. It depends on their use and setup. I would not suggest their use for cinema/movies. They are cohesive and refined with 2 channel music however they need boosting in the HF due to steep rolloff. Seems like the exchange is digging deeper to a lower crossover point at the expense of headway above 12khz which needs eq.  They do not fit my needs. And I honestly prefer the 3 way setup. Dialogue is clearer and upper midrange is more prominent with the 3 way. But they must be tamed with the 3 way or it will sound they are shouting at you. Also, you will need additional seating distance with the 3 way so they are not for small rooms. 

[MMurg]

17 hours ago, diamonddelts said:

An update. I played around with Klipsch 3 way passive crossovers, Klipsch passive 2 way crossovers, and Xilica XP 4080. A/b switched back and forth between Celestion Axi 2050 on K402 horn with 2 way crossover vs. KT-1133HP on K402/K-691 on K510 horn with 3 way crossover.

 

Here are my thoughts. The Celestion Axi 2050 cds have a natural clarity to them which is very impressive. Sound was very cohesive even when sitting as close as seven feet from the speaker. Sound was more controlled and seemingly a bit more refined upon first listening to the Axi 2050. However, on certain tracks the mids did not appear as prominent as with the 3 way setup. And switching to cinema for movies was even more of the same. Dialogue sounded recessed and I had to crank the volume a bit to hear voices which I could hear clearly at lower volumes with the 3 way setup.

 

The K 1133HP with K691 on 402/510 do sound better the further you sit away from them. Preferably at least 15 feet or more back. The upper mids and HF can be a bit overwhelming if you are used to the 2 way version. However this can be easily tamed with onboard eq or with electronic crossover. The mids sounded fuller with the 3 way setup  and HF range sounds more prominent especially with movies. I can't help but to feel the 3 way setup has more potential though it can be fraught with more obstacles as well since you are adding another crossover to the mix. 

 

Needless to say I sent the Celestion Axi 2050 cds back for a refund yesterday. I was really, really bummed because I wanted them to blow away the stock drivers which came with the 535 B Jubilee horns. But this was not my experience. A well known, prominent member here warned me this would be a lateral move at best. I should have listened. I would have saved myself alot of time, money, and agony. Lifting the 402/510 horns with the CD 2050 and K 1133HP/K691 drivers off and on the speakers several times by myself was no easy task. 

 

I have a few more drivers I am going to try this week with the 3 way setup but if I don't hear any discernable differences I will have to stick with the stock 535 drivers. They sound much better than I gave them credit for and I love them in combination with the QSC RMX 5050a amp which just arrived this week. 

 

I used M6 35mm threaded studs for the install of the Celestion Axi 2050s if that helps anyone down the road. I was doing some reading on the latest iterations from Klipsch with the K-691 and folks were saying it was a rebadged B&C driver. Does anyone know what the K-1133HP driver is?

 

How did you go about programming the Xilica for use with the Axi2050/K-402?  How did you determine the PEQs and crossover settings?  Did you measure any of these setups and if so, where (1m on axis of the K402, listening position, something else)?  Did I read it correctly that you used the passive crossovers with Axi2050 in some tests?  I can't imagine you would get anything like the correct response out of the 2050 with any of the existing crossovers.  As I mentioned before, I'm one of the few people on the planet fortunate enough to have heard both the Heritage Jubilee and the 2-way Underground Jubilee in same room.  I also own a pair of Heritage Jubilee and have used the Axi2050 on a center speaker for the Jubilee (a mod that can no longer be discussed here).  It took me a while with a number of iterations working with Chris A directly to get the correct measured response on the center speaker.  Your experience is the opposite of mine.  Both my Heritage Jubilee and the center speaker measure flat through the mids and highs at 1m and at the listening position and sound that way when listening.

[LTusler]

I am with MMurg on this.  In my case the AXI was much better than the 691 AFTER 12 or so rounds of tuning to my room with ChrisA.  My system is 2 channel and no HT use.  I have also heard the Heritage and the tops compared well, but the Heritage had the edge on the bass for sure.  I am using dual subs its close but not the same.

[diamonddelts]

I hired a audio engineer who took measurements from multiple points in my room. He had his own digital eq rig but he also used the Xilica XP 4080 to format settings for the active crossover. After numerous tests and moving the speakers around a bit, he was able to get a relatively flat response in the upper mids/treble after much tuning. I am familiar with your Heritage Jubilee owner thread MMurg. It was your thread which sparked my interest in the Heritage Jubilees. I saw that you were not that impressed with them at first, but after some fine tuning you were ecstatic with their performance. I have followed the Heritage Jubilees since their first announcement almost two years ago. 

 

I heard a pair of Heritage Klipsch Jubilees from an authorized dealer recently. I also heard a pair of Klipsch UG Jubilees with K-691 drivers and a second pair of Klipsch UG Jubilees with Tad-4002 drivers.  I have also heard Klipsch 3 way 535 Jubilee fully stock from Klipsch. And Finally my speakers with Klipsch stock horns/cds paired with aftermarket bass bins.

 

I did not hear any improvement between the Klipsch 2 way UG with Tad drivers in comparison to my speakers. The Klipsch UG with K-691 was a discernable step down in audio quality in comparison to what I've heard from my speakers.  The fully stock Klipsch 3 way 535 Jubilees were a toss up in the mids/treble with mine but I will say their bass response was a bit better than my aftermarket bins.

 

But, I want to be clear that I am not one of these guys saying a pair of aftermarket speakers built in someone's garage sounds on par or better than a fully stock Heritage flagship speaker. That would be outright foolish and disingenuous.   The Heritage Jubilees sound better than my speakers. As they should for the price. Their sound is more refined and their midbass/low bass adds depth which I have only heard a few times in my life outside of $20,000+ subwoofers I've heard.  I would easily choose them for 2 channel music in a smaller room. Hands down, no question. 

 

As for cinema use, the 402 horn just does not control and project the dialogue as well as the 510 horn in combination with the 402 horn. That was made painfully clear to me over the last few months. As for the drivers that I've been tinkering with, I know these Celestion Axi 2050s do not have the specially designed phase plug from Roy. My thoughts on these drivers were simply mirroring what the reviewer said. They need some serious boosting above 5khz. Not a big deal and not the end of the world. No driver is an end all, be all. And every driver design has compromises. These are still some of the best drivers I've heard out of the box.

 

If I had never heard the 3 way Jubilees, I would be sold on a 2 way setup and never look back. But the 3 way is the more effective solution for movies and playback in a larger room. The synergy between the K-1133HP and the K-691 is something special. I can't put my finger on it because either driver on it's own is nothing special on paper. And I definitely feel the K-691 can be improved upon hence my incessant tinkering. 

 

If Klipsch would offer a 3 way Heritage Jubilee I would take it in a heartbeat. But since, that is not going to happen, I am left to my own devices without any  projected upgrade path for the 3 way 402/510 combo. Depending on how the other drivers sound, I might have to go back home to JBL and buy the M2, Everest, or SCL 1 speakers. My  wife gave me a full go ahead to get whatever I want up to $80,000. But I am a newlywed and don't want to get things started by feeling like I am taking advantage of my wife's kind heart. So I am exercising all options and tinkering till my heart's content to see if I can find a higher value, lower price option. If not, I might have to go all out  and buy once, cry once before the next house gets built.  

 

[PrestonTom]

Three comments and a possible conclusion. 

 

First, you do not need to spend $80K to get good sound. 

Second, these are systems employing CD horns (controlled directivity). As such the horn will need some boost and EQing. The DSP settings will be unique to the specific horn/driver combination. Unless this was done, you may have not listened to an optimized version. As far as an analog crossover (network) - don't bother.

Third, it's unfortunate that Klipsch no longer offers the "original Jubilee" in either the 2-way or the 3-way version.

 

Conclusion, since #3 is unfortunately the new reality, I would seriously consider listening to the JBL offerings (M2 is the best, but 4367 is competitive).

Good luck, -Tom

[MMurg]

I don't understand why you don't just buy a pair of Heritage Jubilee if you are willing to spend that kind of money.  You admit they sound better than your speakers.  There would be no advantage to having a 3-way Heritage Jubilee.  Yes, the K-510 in a 3-way would prevent some HF beaming without Roy's phase plug.  However, Roy's wide dispersion phase plug was designed to accomplish the same thing and is very effective at doing so.  (In any case, this only helps for off-axis listening anyway.)  And a 3-way configuration gives up the almost point-source dispersion that the 2-way configuration has.  I have watched movies in my 5.0 Jubilee setup.  There is no problem at all with dialog intelligently with the Heritage Jubilee.  The Jubilee also had no problems like that in the much larger Klipsch lab listening room.

[diamonddelts]

30 minutes ago, PrestonTom said:

Three comments and a possible conclusion. 

 

First, you do not need to spend $80K to get good sound. 

Second, these are systems employing CD horns (controlled directivity). As such the horn will need some boost and EQing. The DSP settings will be unique to the specific horn/driver combination. Unless this was done, you may have not listened to an optimized version. As far as an analog crossover (network) - don't bother.

Third, it's unfortunate that Klipsch no longer offers the "original Jubilee" in either the 2-way or the 3-way version.

 

Conclusion, since #3 is unfortunately the new reality, I would seriously consider listening to the JBL offerings (M2 is the best, but 4367 is competitive).

Good luck, -Tom

I concur. I really, really like the effortless, yet precise sound of JBL M2 speakers when paired with Crown Itech 5000 amps. I also love their look. And to this day, they have given me the best two channel music experience from any speaker I have ever heard below $30,000.

 

If I decide to go with a smaller media room, they will most likely be my pick.

[diamonddelts]

I played with a pair of B&C DCM50 2" Neodymium Midrange Compression Drivers in place of the KT 1133HP on the mid horns over the last few days. They have a natural sound to them that is very pleasing and detailed. But their mid range did not sound as full as the KT 1133HP. 

 

I am tickled to death with the performance of the KT 1133HP after these comparisons. So i'm going to stop trying to reinvent the wheel. Sending the B&C DCM50 2" Neodymium Midrange Compression Drivers back on Monday.

 

I damaged the connectors to one of my KT-1133 HP drivers in my zest to try out the Celestion Axi 2050 drivers last week. Can anyone tell me if I buy a new diaphragm will it come with new spring loaded connectors? Or am I better off buying a new KT 1133HP driver?

[OO1]

On 6/28/2023 at 10:02 PM, diamonddelts said:

 I might have to go back home to JBL and buy the M2, Everest, 

 

klipsch    have 2  top of the line speakers  the klipsch Palladium  P39F  or the Heritage Jubilee , both can take on a JBL Everest  , the Palladium series have a passive , high end  network  , it's a pretty special speaker 

[diamonddelts]

5 hours ago, OO1 said:

klipsch    have 2  top of the line speakers  the klipsch Palladium  P39F  or the Heritage Jubilee , both can take on a JBL Everest  , the Palladium series have a passive , high end  network  , it's a pretty special speaker 

I don't think Klipsch is making the Palladium speakers  anymore. I was fascinated by their specs and they looked amazing.  I saw that Mmurg owned a pair before he moved on to the Heritage Jubilees. 

[diamonddelts]

I damaged the connectors to one of my KT-1133 HP drivers in my zest to try out the Celestion Axi 2050 drivers last week. Can anyone tell me if I buy a new diaphragm will it come with new spring loaded connectors? Or am I better off buying a new KT 1133HP driver?

[OO1]

no need to replace  the spring loaded  connectors /   diaphragm assembly    ,   you can  solder  the  speaker wires  directly to the  terminals  ,

can you post a picture of the damaged connectors , let's see the damage 

[diamonddelts]

19 minutes ago, OO1 said:

no need to replace  the spring loaded  connectors /   diaphragm assembly    ,   you can  solder  the  speaker wires  directly to the  terminals  ,

can you post a picture of the damaged connectors , let's see the damage 

 

[diamonddelts]

It is mainly the negative connector that is jiggly loose now. I don't have a problem buying a diaphagm if it comes with the spring loaded connectors. If not, I will just buy another 1133-HP driver on Monday and give this one away.

[OO1]

 

15 minutes ago, diamonddelts said:

It is mainly the negative connector that is jiggly loose now. I don't have a problem buying a diaphagm for if it comes with the connectors. If not, I will just buy another 1133-HP driver on Monday and give this one away.

your picture shows  the rear cover of the driver which comes out by removing 6 screws , this is the component you need to purchase from Klipsch in order to solve your issue 

[diamonddelts]

11 minutes ago, OO1 said:

 

your picture shows  the rear cover of the driver which comes out by removing 6 screws , this is the component you need to purchase from Klipsch in order to solve your issue 

Ok what would be the term I ask for? Shoud I say KT 1133HP compression driver cover or cap? I am going to email A.C.E. again today.

[OO1]

can you show me the opposite side of the picture you posted 

[diamonddelts]

1 minute ago, OO1 said:

can you show me the opposite side of the picture you posted