Deang Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 hour ago, Stephen Buck said: On used original commercial units redeployed to home use. Commercial plywood LaScalas had commercial woofers with higher SPLs and were often deployed in harsh environments, auditoriums with high temperature and humidity swings over many years. It’s fantastic people find them so good for reuse. Before you go screw up a pair of AL5s which are MDF/HDF and therefore have different resonance characteristics, I’d consider your SPLs and real world use and actual audible measurements from listening position. Should be easily done with test tone and mic, to pick up actual signal mismatch and with someone alternately pressing on sidewall to dampen to see if errant signal reduces or goes away. Probably REW can do it. ^This Along with the MDF, quite a bit of correction built into the new networks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornukopia Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 hour ago, Don A. Childs said: I've owned the Lascala II for about five years. Recently I placed Isoacoustic pucks between the HF and LF bins, attempting to experiment with isolation benefits. The improvement in clarity is stunning... What do you hear with more clarity, the bass or the upper end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 10 hours ago, Tom05 said: Deleted IMHO the physics answer is unresolving speakers hide bad mixes. I bet the mix sounds great on harbeth p3esr near fields. Go figure out why. Also try on headphones. I watched a more recent Chris Isaac video and the eq on his voice is now totally different. I wonder why…. but at the time it had an unusual sound quality to rise above the fray. If you play with mix limits you play with fire. However it’s easily remedied on playback. There was one little bit in his voice after the enveloping warble that almost sounded like cone breakup. Maybe that’s the limit he hit with microphone or levels. It’s very brief. I always have to play a clean track to fix my head after hearing a bad mix. Compare this experience to over driving a speaker that can’t handle it, that actually does cone breakup. Heard that plenty of times. Time to move on to the next song. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don A. Childs Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 In answer to the question what did I hear improvement in (the bass or upper end). At first I noticed the clarity of the upper end. The instruments took on more dimension and realism in that each musical aspect acquired more of its own flavor. this morning I noticed the violins now have that unique violin tone that makes them so intriguing. Let me know if you try it! Oh, now it seems, the bass stands alone in its own world. Much improved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 3 minutes ago, Don A. Childs said: In answer to the question what did I hear improvement in (the bass or upper end). At first I noticed the clarity of the upper end. The instruments took on more dimension and realism in that each musical aspect acquired more of its own flavor. this morning I noticed the violins now have that unique violin tone that makes them so intriguing. Let me know if you try it! Oh, now it seems, the bass stands alone in its own world. Much improved Photos? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don A. Childs Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Actually cant see a thing except that the HF bin sits about 3/4 " higher than it did. I cut and painted one inch tall 24" long (black) square sticks to hide the pucks and add visual continuity. Raising HF bin helped too. Now the sound stage presentation is more appropriately lifted to a realistic level to my hearing. (May have contributed (1 inch) to the perception of enhanced clarity but one inch higher couldn't account for this massive enhancement since I've often experimented with height adjustments in a million increments. Do you own Lascalas or know anyone who does? Very curious if Its just me or if this is as dramatic universally? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don A. Childs Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 By the way, since I'm the new guy, would there be a better way to interact with the forum on this topic other than tagging onto this discussion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom05 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 On 1/10/2024 at 8:44 AM, Stephen Buck said: So what does this mean for me , not much , actually nothing , not in my humble opinion . I’ve compared mono bass to stereo lots of times and concluded that any difference in my home setting is insignificant . Even this guy seems to realizes this , as he insists that we use earphones to detect a change in sound . Earphones are different than loudspeakers in that they give significant directional cues even with low bass signals ,unlike room loudspeakers . 🤓 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 4 minutes ago, Don A. Childs said: Actually cant see a thing except that the HF bin sits about 3/4 " higher than it did. I cut and painted one inch tall 24" long (black) square sticks to hide the pucks and add visual continuity. Raising HF bin helped too. Now the sound stage presentation is more appropriately lifted to a realistic level to my hearing. (May have contributed (1 inch) to the perception of enhanced clarity but one inch higher couldn't account for this massive enhancement since I've often experimented with height adjustments in a million increments. Do you own Lascalas or know anyone who does? Very curious if Its just me or if this is as dramatic universally? If you draw a level line from your ear to the tweeter center, where is it now that you raised it? That might tell us something. Does it still fire level or at an angle now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 17 minutes ago, Tom05 said: So what does this mean for me , not much , actually nothing , not in my humble opinion . I’ve compared mono bass to stereo lots of times and concluded that any difference in my home setting is insignificant . Even this guy seems to realizes this , as he insists that we use earphones to detect a change in sound . Earphones are different than loudspeakers in that they give significant directional cues even with low bass signals ,unlike room loudspeakers . 🤓 What is the angle of separation in your setup? Mine is about 45 for mains and 90 for surrounds. I can totally tell a difference in stereo v mono bass, but my surrounds are chorus. Especially with Atmos on albums like Yello the bass waves move across the room. It’s lovely. You’d never get that if you were cutting off your lows and sending to sub. I’ve tried it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 31 minutes ago, Don A. Childs said: By the way, since I'm the new guy, would there be a better way to interact with the forum on this topic other than tagging onto this discussion? Lots of existing discussions on isolation in general. But it is relevant to this discussion too since it is LS models and discussion of possible cabinet resonance. Up to you. Not sure if new members can start new topics immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom05 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Mono and stereo will be substantially the same signal , particularly after the common practice of summing when mastering a recording . You may be capable of hearing a differences in some recordings , or maybe you just think that you can hear a difference , but your perception of improvement would definitely be subjective , not universally seen as improvement 🤓 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 12 minutes ago, Tom05 said: Mono and stereo will be substantially the same signal , particularly after the common practice of summing when mastering a recording . You may be capable of hearing a differences in some recordings , or maybe you just think that you can hear a difference , but your perception of improvement would definitely be subjective , not universally seen as improvement 🤓 True but the exact same argument was used for mono v stereo and 2-channel v 5.1 and 5.1 v Atmos. And what’s a sensation anyway? Whatever it is you’ll get used to it. Might as well just listen to AM radio through single speaker. What’s the point if you don’t perceive it. I know plenty of people that literally can’t tell the difference in sound quality, while others have golden ears like super tasters. If you can’t perceive it does it exist? If the mix engineer who works in an Atmos room wants us to hear something should we try to share their experience? Not everyone needs an IMAX level of sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 15 minutes ago, Tom05 said: Mono and stereo will be substantially the same signal , particularly after the common practice of summing when mastering a recording . You may be capable of hearing a differences in some recordings , or maybe you just think that you can hear a difference , but your perception of improvement would definitely be subjective , not universally seen as improvement 🤓 Also if the mix engineer uses stereo sound shouldn’t we not override “the artists intention”? They can do mono if they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT88 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 hour ago, Don A. Childs said: By the way, since I'm the new guy, would there be a better way to interact with the forum on this topic other than tagging onto this discussion? First of all, welcome to the forum, Don. Thank you for asking. I think your topic is worth opening its own thread in this section. You would get more resonance😀. I can't speak for everyone, it's just my opinion. Here in the jungle of all these last pages of posts your concern will be completely lost, it would be the thread drift of a thread drift. Nobody will find anything here that you could open in your new thread. This thread was actually mainly about how an AL5 owner @Flevoman deals with the phenomenon of resonances in his particular case. I'm actually looking forward to hearing what else he has to say about it and whether his girlfriend likes his DSPeaker gear. But maybe he'll open a new thread as well... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom05 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 On 1/10/2024 at 8:18 AM, Stephen Buck said: Will look at this fresh today. I’m thinking when I tried again my sub might not have warmed up or something else was amiss. Does the OP have a sub? Im thinking this could be in the realm of the stereo bass arguments you will see everywhere. For example, one site says “As a general rule of thumb, it’s considered common practice to sum anything below 200hz to mono.” So one idea is to replay the track in mono and see if the problem goes away since it went away when playing one speaker at a time. I have all my speakers set to full range because well they are full range. Bass heads will disagree but I like it. So when I tried it again after system shut down from inactivity, it’s possible my sub was not on, and perhaps the way the sub interacted with the AL5s created the sensation. Remember when I said the problem was gone when I only played the left but then I said the problem was sort of gone when I only played the right? Well the sub is on the right. If my AVR is sending 80Hz and above to mains and not summing the bass and sending to sub (which I believe it is) then the interplay of stereo bass plus sub is showing its effects. Have fun watching YouTube on mixing stereo bass then go listen to the “experts” at audioholics and elsewhere. will also try the peq setting but that won’t make the effect disappear necessarily. It will still be there just less audible, and my windows won’t shatter. When you high pass your Lascala’s to 80hz, your subwoofer/ subwoofers will take over and you had better have one hell of a subwoofer setup to competently replace the lost Lascala bass , if you don’t , then it’s not going to sound good ,but it will sound much better when running full range , when only the lowest range gets boosted and the Lascala can play out to max benefit . What your experiencing here is not enough good subwoofer. And you may be conflating your weak subwoofer as a mono / stereo issue .🤓 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom05 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 10 minutes ago, Stephen Buck said: What's with Germans and their need to control others? Let me break it down for you.... 1) User complains of cabinet resonance, references specific songs and offsets 2) How many participants tried it? 3) If other users report no cabinet resonance as cause of phenomena, what else could it be? 4) In my experiment: The Isaac Warble is in the mid bass region, disappears when one channel played. 5) This points to the mix, and how it resolves on AL5 with a given setup, does not occur on NS-5000s but different location offset. 6) Arguments ensue about bass mixing, two videos of pro-stereo bass presented, showing biggest most modern artists are using it. 7) Isaac mix is old, waiting for mix engineer to respond to email. Probably heard it a million times. New Isaac video has different EQ of his voice. Problem solved. 😎 Problem goes away in my experiment if PEQ and tone controls set flat, tried PEQ of 148Hz, Q:8, -7db with no audible difference at :37. 😎 Fascists continue to point and shoot and not do anything useful. I figured it was just a matter of time until you crossed the line 🤓.what a dumb Buck . 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 9 minutes ago, Tom05 said: I figured it was just a matter of time until you crossed the line 🤓.what a dumb Buck . Yeah, one way or another, methinks he’s not long for this world…… 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flevoman Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 50 minutes ago, KT88 said: First of all, welcome to the forum, Don. Thank you for asking. I think your topic is worth opening its own thread in this section. You would get more resonance😀. I can't speak for everyone, it's just my opinion. Here in the jungle of all these last pages of posts your concern will be completely lost, it would be the thread drift of a thread drift. Nobody will find anything here that you could open in your new thread. This thread was actually mainly about how an AL5 owner @Flevoman deals with the phenomenon of resonances in his particular case. I'm actually looking forward to hearing what else he has to say about it and whether his girlfriend likes his DSPeaker gear. But maybe he'll open a new thread as well... I did indeed open this topic with the question of whether the AL-5 perhaps has resonance, causing annoying background noises in the music. Thanks to a lot of information and help, I now finally know at least what I hear (a thickening in the 100Hz-160Hz range). I have been able to form my own view on the reason for this, and I want to provide a more well-founded explanation here this weekend. Now it's up to me to decide what I want to do about it and how.🙄 Regarding the DSpeaker, I will test it further tomorrow with my girlfriend, but if there is interest, I'm willing to open a topic sharing my findings on the DSpeaker. If so, let me know 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Alot of topics covering the subject on the LS resonance. My summation is while not perfect, all LS have the inherited ability to expose garbage in garbage out of less than quality sources, be they live or recorded. Lyrics resolving, musically fascinating hi-fi loudspeaker by design. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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