Randy Bey Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Well, I risked getting divorced and sent my Cary in to be repaired last November. Waited till after the holidays for financial reasons, and was finally in Apex, NC the other week so I thought I'd call them. Kirk hadn't gotten around to looking at it yet In retribution, I brought Minnesota weather to NC and shut the whole state down for a couple of days. Heh. My luck. I get to go someplace "warm" and they get the worst winter in recent memory the same week. Anyways, Kirk looked at it while I was there and gave it a clean bill of health(!) I told him there was NO WAY. He was measuring the RIAA curve of the phono stage and said it was spot on. I persisted, and he took it upstairs and plugged it into some stereo equipment. He said the line stage sounded real "flat" and so he replaced the 6sn7s and 6sl7s with new tubes. That made it sound great again to him. I couldn't afford to have him replace the tubes so he put the old Brimars back in and sent it back, plus the big repair bill of course. When I got home it was waiting for me. I took out the Brimar 1985s (a 6sl7 replacement) and put in some Sylvanias I had laying around. The phono sounded a bit better, and the line stage had so DARN MUCH gain that a 2 degree turn of the volume knob went from quiet (the volume turned all the way down I could still hear music) to blasting loud. So I ignored my creditors and popped for a pair of 6sn7 EHs. Waiting for them to arrive. Hope this does it. Really hope it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted February 8, 2003 Author Share Posted February 8, 2003 Got my EH 6sn7s in today and popped them in the Cary. Little better but the phono stage is squarely trounced by my Rat Shack $15.00 battery powered phono stage. Now I am bummed. What do I do now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 There has to be something wrong with it. There is no way I would think a $15 RS battery phono stage is going to trounce a Cary ! I would hope anyway ! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 Gee, I don't know about that. Ron Welborne's new preamps are going to be powered off of batteries. Hey, take that nasty old AC out of the mix, and who knows? Maybe that Radio Shack phono amp has to elevated to legendary HK 430 status. Seriously though -- I would email Dennis direct, or just call during the day and ask for him. I think he would be interested in hearing this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 Last summer I purchased an AES AE-1 preamp on ebay to use while I was waiting for my Syrah preamp to be built. When I received the AE-1 it had been damaged in shipping...the input selector switch was broken. I ended up calling Kirk at Cary and I sent the AE-1 to him to fix the selector switch and I paid him to go over the AE-1 to be sure it was wired correctly and working properly. When Kirk returned the preamp he said it was indeed working properly and seemed to have been well built. When I put it in my system I found one channel worked well but one channel didn't have hardly any output. I replaced the tubes thinking that would fix the problem...it didn't. To make a long story short I eventually sent the AE-1 to a fellow board member to see if he could figure out what was wrong with it. Turned out there was more wrong with it than there was right with it. There is no way in he** Kirk could have even plugged it in, let alone check it out in any professional fashion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted February 12, 2003 Author Share Posted February 12, 2003 The saga continues.... I called Cary and insisted on speaking with Dennis Had. He was a bit brusque, but ultimately said that the preamp I have should have never been released to the general public. He wants me to send it back and he will make a 'deep discount' on a replacement preamp. Sounds good, but my current finances would be strapped if he sold me an SLP98 for $50. What should I do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 bummer randy, I think you have to take what they offer you...what choice is there? if D Had himself says that preamp is a dud and offers a swap+$$$ then I guess that will be the way to go. perhaps you can tell him you have no money right now and ask if he can suggest another unit that would be a clean swap. maybe he has something on the shelves or in the warehouse he can let go with no cash. sorry to hear about your problems. guess I will forget about the SLP-88...tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 Pretty funny. You had to insist to speak to him? I just call and ask for "Dennis" -- and he gets on the phone. This is one person I absolutely cannot imagine being rough, sour, or rude. Was the 90 with the 6SN7's a problem -- or just your particular preamp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted February 12, 2003 Author Share Posted February 12, 2003 Tony, don't give up on the SLP88. Mine is a weird prototype that according to Dennis doesn't belong out in the wild world. It sounds 'like it should' he says. Dean, I called him on your recommendation. When I asked for Dennis, the receptionist asked why, I explained, she said "Kirk is not available until 1PM" and I said I want to speak to Dennis. Then she demurred. Not a big fight, but not a quick transfer either. And Dennis was definitely defensive, oblique, and upset. Glad you have nothing but happy happy joy joy times with him but I did not. I was trying to insist that since I had already paid to get the preamp fixed, then I should not have to pay again. I was polite but insistent. He ultimately made this offer rather than claim it could be fixed. If he really goes through with it then I think highly of the professional behavior. I told him I had little money, so if he gets the preamp and says another $1000 will put me in a new SLP98, then I would describe him as a cad. Time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisK Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 My experience with Cary's service department has been very positive. I've spoken with Kirk and Dennis Had numerous times. Each instance they've displayed unending patience, and been very courteous. It appeared to me that they wanted to "exceed the customer's expectations". Something woefully lacking in many business's these days. That said, an audiophile friend of mine once mentioned a phrase he claims is bantered about in the "audio world" - "You haven't been had 'till you've been had by Had." The above remark does not reflect my experiences. Quite the contrary. Regards, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 Sorry to hear of your preamp problems, Randy. I was the one who bought Ed's AE-1 linestage -- initially to check it out, but then ended up buying it. It's really a great preamplifier, but took a good deal of work to get it that way. Ed pointed out that one channel barely had any output: One of the high voltage rectifier was bad, and the tube was only getting heater current -- with the preamp on standby, a signal can still be passed, but at a greatly reduced output. And then the other HV rectifier went out, and things sounded really bad. This was originally a kit, and there is no telling about the building experience of the person who first constructed it -- I have an idea about that, though. Long, long story made shorter: The entire power supply was rebuilt, including that of the filament section. A few of the components used were not values stated on the schematic ($12.00 from AES), and so those were corrected. So many wires were on the verge of breaking, that something went wrong practically every time I put it back in the system. So ALL, and I mean all wiring was completely re-done. There were also two electrolytic capacitors that had been pushed into the chassis with such force to make them fit, that the undersides of the can were crushed in. Those were replaced with correct value electrolytics last weekend. There was still a persistent buzz that I couldn't trace. Then I noticed last Friday that, looking at the preamp at eye-level, one of the 6SN7s was sticking out of its socket slightly more than maybe 1/8". I couldn't get it to go in any further than that. And that was the source of the buzz! One of the tube pins was filled with a bunch of solder that had dripped in from the underside. The pin was extracted; solder removed with de-soldering braid; and things were quiet, and very clean sounding. Preamps should also be ideally grounded at a single common point, but this thing was grounded all over the chassis. I only have one section left to do to connect it to the star ground, and that will be it. I can't see how any thorough inspection would not have exposed at least some of these problems -- almost all of which were certainly related to the original construction of the kit. Kirk in fact did a first rate job with the selector switch replacment, but I really didn't care for the shunt volume control modification. So, what he did he did well, but a thorough inspection and test at AES this preamp did not get. Sorry! Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 When I sent the AE-1 in the "first" time I was quoted "Ed, we will repair and test the unit for $89.50 plus parts and shipping. The switch will be around $7.00." I agreed to the price and I was issued an RMA#. I told Kirk that if other parts needed replacing or other work needed to be done to the preamp to bring it up to spec. I didn't mind paying extra for whatever work needed to be done. When I received the AE-1 back the selector switch was broken again (I assume not "still"). I called and spoke to Kirk to see if I needed a new RMA# to get the switch replaced again. I also asked him about how it checked out on the bench...the overall condition and build. Kirk said that "it sounds good and looks well built. I would have done a couple of things differently but it is well made as it is". It took quite a while longer to get it back the second time and that was when I discovered the one channel didn't have much output. My goal here is not to turn this thread into a AES/Cary Kirk/Dennis Had bashing thread, just to relate my experience on this single transaction concerning the AE-1. I had another very positive experience previously with AES/Cary Kirk/Dennis Had when I purchased an AE-3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 I totally agree with Ed. I want to emphasize again that the Kirk's craftsmaship with selector switch was very good, but I forgot it took a second go-around to get it that way. I'm totally happy with the AE-1, and the new EH 6SN7s sound very, very good in it. By the way, Randy! I'm using the same batter-powered MM phono stage from Radio Shack. For the money it is incredibly good! I want to try to build a more conventional 12AX7 based phono section, but they are HARD to do. I doubt that it would 'better' the phono stage in your Cary once it's working the way it should. Good Luck, Randy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 Did you buy that pre-amp new from Cary, Randy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 Erik, I'm also interested in building a 12ax7 based preamp or even just a phono section. I've been looking at some plans and designs, wondering if the low plate voltage on the Eico phono section is an issue that causes some of the negative comments? I see that they're rated for 330 volts, Class A operation to 250, but some of the designs I see are running them at 60 - 70 V. Whassup widdat? And, I see that there are some well-known combinations of RC ckts to make the RIAA stuff come out, but when I look at the parts in the vintage amps they're using uh, uh, "inexpensive" parts, yeah, that the word I was looking for. Wonder if a guy could lose the the carbon comp resistors and disc caps that were probably $0.01 apiece and end up with something pretty nice. What do you think is a ballpark number for input and output impedance? Got any ideas on how to achieve the numbers? Will 12ax7s do DC on the heaters? BTW, I'm working 12 hour days the rest of the week, so I might only get in one post/day on here till Sunday. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted February 13, 2003 Author Share Posted February 13, 2003 No, I didn't buy the preamp new from Cary. It is a prototype SLP90, which, according to Dennis, is over 13 years old. I mailed it back today; I'll see what comes of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 back to the creek huh randy? ; ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted February 13, 2003 Author Share Posted February 13, 2003 I wish. Sold the Creek and all my other assorted leftovers on audiogon to be able to afford this boat anchor preamp that I have now. My CD player has built-in volume controls so I just hook that guy straight up to the Laurels. Quite a respectable result that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 To bad you didnt buy a normal, stock unit...even a stock SLP-90 with phono is a great sounding little preamp though not as good as the SLP-70. If someone were to really fix that phono stage, at least to the standard SLP-70/90 level, you would have a great pre, depending on how well they wired it. Buying a prototype of unknown origin is sketchy at best. You dont know where they were in the development. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 I have a preamp in the closet a Sound Valves SV-100 JFET preamp. it doesn't sound as good a my Marantz, or as transparent as the creek did, but it gets the job done, if you like I will dig it out and send it to you to hold you over until the new cary arrives. write me a note if you are interested. tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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