m00n Posted March 10, 2003 Author Share Posted March 10, 2003 ---------------- On 3/10/2003 9:40:21 PM bkrop wrote: M00n,M00n MOON, You have fallen off the edge and arestill falling... upgraditis exemplar ---------------- You are giving me way too much credit if you think this is about upgraditis.... Oh no my friend. When it comes to how to power these belles, I am suffering from I-don't-know-a-damn-thing-titus. There is no upgraditis involved here. To have that illness, one needs to have some degree of knowledge. Oh and Mike, I will give NOSValues a shoutout here in the two channel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Hi guy (subtle reference to open medicine cabinet in bathroom... )... Whether Belle and her sister La Scala have bass depends very much upon what you consider "bass" to be. tom Brennen has raked me over the coals a few times on this topic. in his opinion ( I think) both Belle and la scala have world class, horn loaded, clear, open, articulate, tight, tuneful, all the bass you need if you are not listening to organ music bass. In my opinion, they have *NO* bass. at least, no *DEEP* bass. Listen to the opening of, say, dark side of the m00n, and instead of a deep, shuddering Whump THUMP you hear pit Pat. Listen to "Don't give up", track two fo the peter gabrieal SO album, and you simply can't hear the deep bass meloday that underpins the song at all. But, if you listen to mostly acoustic recordings that don't include pipe organs, you probably hear everything that's on the recording, and hear it more clearly and more accurately than you will with any other speaker. then again, I used to have a pair of B&W 801F (original series) speakers, and i had to augment *THEM* with a sub. maybe I'm just nuts. Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Well my Lascala's seem to shake my concrete basement floor pretty darn good for not having any bass !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted March 11, 2003 Author Share Posted March 11, 2003 I guess I will just have to wait and see. I don't expect the Belles to comepete with my RSW12 and RSW15 as far as bass goes. Well, I would not expect them to anyway. If I feel that they lack in the bass department, I *UGH* suppose I could eventually get another sub. It would have to be something along the lines of an SVS though simply because I wouldn't have the room for anything else. However, I really need to conserve money where possible. I still need to get my home theater finished. And if I wanted to get technical, I should have held off on the belles until I was finished with it... But... I just couldn't resist any longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny dB Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Wait till you hear them... I bet the amount of bass you hear will surprise you. I have a pair of Khorns I don't even have in corners. (really diminishes bass response when not in a corner) Anyway, when hooked up to my HK AR receiver I have to have my 1000W JBL 18" subwoofer on if I want some bass. But, when I have my 299 on I don't need the sub on; the bass is so much better through the old tubes. Well they were until my 299 pooped out on me. It's on it's way back to Craig, but I'm sure he'll have me back in my 299 bliss in no time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted March 12, 2003 Author Share Posted March 12, 2003 A lot of you have been asking about shipping and what not. Basically here is what is happening. The lady I purchased them from is having Carolina Crating come out and crate them up for her. They will then take the speakers to Forward Air. She gave me a run down on how they are to be crated, it sounds like they do a very good job (keeping my fingers crossed). This is an extra fee. One I am not too bothered to pay. If it gets my speakers to me in perfect condition, then good. Anyway, this should be happening Friday maybe as late as Monday. Reason it's taking so long to get them shipped is because of the crating ordeal... NOW, here is the part your gonna love. Really you are. ... Shipping these bad boys is only going to cost me $125.00 and that's WITH insurance. I am blown away at this. Crating costs......... $185.00 Shipping costs.........$125.00 ============================== TOTAL COST.............$310.00 I have to say, I am very happy about those costs. To have them professionaly crated up and shipped is less than what I was expecting for just shipping alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Moon, Those Belles need to be wrapped in thin mil visqueen BEFORE being crated up...so that nothing can rub directly against the finish on them (including styrofoam!)...keep that in mind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted March 12, 2003 Author Share Posted March 12, 2003 Oh really? Ok... I was just about to call her and request that the guy who is crating them up call me when he arrives to crate them... i want to just double how he is doing things. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted March 15, 2003 Author Share Posted March 15, 2003 I am starting to loose my patience. When I bid on them and won, I knew it was going to take several weeks to get this all ironed out and have the speakers shipped to me. I very well knew this. I mean heck, the logistics of getting the speakers packaged up correctly sent to the shippers and all that can't be all that easy. At the time, I was OK with it. HOWEVER, while I still understand all that and still feel the same way... I am really wishing this whole process would hurry and my speakers arrive. Oh well, I guess I need to keep in mind two old sayings, patience is a virtue good things come to those who wait. Doooh BS! Who am I trying to kid, I just want my speakers right here right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 >Listen to the opening of, say, dark side of the m00n, and instead of a deep, shuddering Whump THUMP you hear pit Pat. Well, Ray, you did leave K'horns out of that, but what I hear on my K'horns from my vintage DSOTM LP with the DBX3 at 1.4 and am cranked to 12 o'clock is china coming off the shelf in the kitchen, my cat attemping to bury itself in the closet, my PAW sitting with her mouth open drooling, and my neighbors calling 911 to report another shuttle seems to be breaking up over us. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale W Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 I don't know what kind of bass poeple are after if they can't get it out of a belle or lascala ? Maybe they should look a little closer at there components before blaming it on the speaker. I've got both my k-horns and lascala's channeled thru audio control series III phase coupled activators. If you don't know what these are ? there digital bass restoration units !! I've got bass like you would not or could not believe without listening . The series III has a gain control If your woofers can handle it ( which mine can't) than give her a crank and stand " BACK " you'll get chest pounding tight clean kicks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 >Listen to the opening of, say, dark side of the m00n, and instead of a deep, shuddering Whump THUMP you hear pit Pat. Well, Ray, you did leave K'horns out of that, but what I hear on my K'horns from my vintage DSOTM LP with the DBX3 at 1.4 and am cranked to 12 o'clock is china coming off the shelf in the kitchen, my cat attemping to bury itself in the closet, my PAW sitting with her mouth open drooling, and my neighbors calling 911 to report another shuttle seems to be breaking up over us. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjohnsonhp Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 When I heard Dave's KHorns I kept commenting on how much more bass they have than my Cornwalls, although I haven't complained about the bass on my Cornwalls. I moved my Cornwalls into the corners and got some more bass for when that's what I want but bass hasn't been a concern for me. Now when I heard LaScalas for the first time, I felt they had a nice tight bass but I kept thinking they needed to go lower. Maybe they would sound different in my room but at the moment I've been keeping with the Cornwalls and wanting KHorns with the perception that the LaScalas just don't have enough extension alone and the specs don't alter my opinion with their 53Hz low-end. Now the sound of what they do produce is impressive enough to make me want to re-evaluate the quality of the bass I do get from the Cornwalls--especially when I get help from the corners of my room. In the end ... I like Dave's KHorns...horn loaded bass and plenty of it. He just needs a Belle/LaScala in the middle to fill midcourt between his horns which are about a basketball court lenght apart....as I hear PWK preferred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted March 15, 2003 Author Share Posted March 15, 2003 Just for grings, lets say that I would like to enhance the bass coming from the belles as in lower in frequency, what can be done about it? Is it a driver issue, a cross over issue, both? Or is it simply a design issue in the way the belles were made? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Moon, if you really find that you want/need more bass, two things I would recommend are: 1) try the acoustic thing if you can. More sound absorption at the back wall & rear side walls. Auralex & Sonex both make good materials for accomplishing this. I believe I sent you a few links on that a week or so ago. Simply absorbing more mid & high frequencies that are reflecting around the room, especially at the back & rear sides surrounding your listening position will make the bass more apparent & at the same time produce better definition & resolution. 2) I know this one is may sound sacrilegious to many purists (I'm one myself), but it works. You might want to try an Aphex Aural Exciter 104 or 204 with "Big Bottom". Its a pro audio "effects unit". You can usually insert these in audio chain somewhere. You can buy a used model 104 for maybe $100-$150. By adjusting the level of the "girth" & "overhang" controls you can make the low end sound much fuller, deeper, louder, etc. Its a unique device in that unlike other effects units, it does not boost the gain (like a bass tone control or EQ would). It doesn't require the amp to work any harder or put out more power. & it doesn't make the speaker cone excursion increase. From what I can tell, from your previous posts, it sounds like you're not going to be listening in a very large room. Many times its actually easier to produce more formidable bass (albeit, exaggerated IMO)in a small room than in a large one. The smaller the room, the more "modes" (caused by the room's dimensions/proportions) are likely to pile up bass at various frequencies and places within the room. The bass response will be more irregular, but will sound louder at certain frequencies, which, may or may not be a good thing depending on your particular situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted March 15, 2003 Author Share Posted March 15, 2003 artto Yes, I did get those links, they will come in handy for my theater, but trying to talk my wife into putting that stuff into our living room is pushing the WAF waaaAAAYYY beyond the limits. The belles will NOT be in the theater. I am keeping my R7s for that. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted March 15, 2003 Author Share Posted March 15, 2003 OK... I take it back. I am very Very VERY glad I don't have my Belles yet. We are having a birthday party for my to boys and thier cousin today, (birthdays are very close). There are some 30 people. About 20 of them are kids. Somehow I don't think Belles and childrens birthday parties would mix... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 m00n, I mentioned in another thread how your Belle Klipsch are rated at 45Hz to 17kHz +/-5dB. Seeing how they'll be placed in your living room, you may or may not need another subwoofer. Of course, it also depends on what kind of music you listen to. If you like acoustic rock, classical, jazz, or other forms of music without deep penetrating bass output, then maybe you won't need a sub at all for the Belle Klipsch. Plus the fact that they'll be in the main house, you probably won't be blasting them to even 90dB the majority of the time. I listen to mostly classical/theatre pipe organ music, and at pretty high levels to boot, so I do benefit with my 15" home-made sub (rated at 20Hz). Unfortunantly, without a preamp, I cannot use my sub now, so I rely on my Cornwall's low 38Hz bass response for my listening needs, and they do a fairly good job. That lowest bottom octave of bass is missed, though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted March 16, 2003 Author Share Posted March 16, 2003 I'm sure I will be happy. Everyone tells me if I like the RF7s, I will definitly like the Belles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Any updates? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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