ShapeShifter Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Hello m00n, Congratulations on your recent Belle purchase. You should be very pleased with their looks and sound. I see you've received a wealth of excellent information and advise for shipment and setup. Others have also offered some fine examples for powering your new beauties too. Given your stated budget, you can also take a look at the Jolida 102 or newer 102B Integrated Amp. I own an earlier Jolida 102 and I am very fond of the little integrated amplifier, it's always available as a back-up power source. It uses 2 pair (4) EL84 Power Output Tubes, has two (2) 12AX7's tubes in its pre-amp slots and delivers 25W per channel. It has CD, Tuner, Tape and Auxiliary inputs. I've used mine at different times to power each set of Heritage speakers that I own, and have never been disappointed with its ability to deliver a wonderful musical experience. Many reviewers believe its musical attributes are due to those EL84 output tubes. The newer Jolida 102B can be bought new for less than $600.00. Used ones often times have prices between $340-360. They do generally sell fast when listed. There are numerous reviews on the web for it too. The Jolida 102/B will certainly keep you within your budget, plus leave you with sufficient funds to buy a good tuner and perhaps some good NOS EL84's. Here's a link to Jolida's web site for more detailed info on the unit: http://www.jolida.com/catalogue/jd102b.html Just another log for the amp fire. Best to ya, Wes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted March 11, 2003 Author Share Posted March 11, 2003 ShapeShifter thanks for the input. I have been looking at Jolida. The one I had been looking at though was the 202A. But I was told that I really didn't need that much power for the belles. So perhaps the one you suggested would be good. Which I understand that Klipsch is very effecient, but in the past I have always been told that the more amps you have the better your speakers are going to sound overall... Is that not the case? Or is it partially the case where once you get to a certian amp output level more amps is not going to buy you anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 m00n, Given the efficiency of those Belles, unless you are using them in a huge room or concert hall, you will need few watts to drive them to extremely painful levels. As most say here; it is the first watt that count. A good clean power source is VERY important with your source components coming in a very close second. That said, one does want to ensure that sufficient headroom is available to avoid clipping. Your musical preference has a impact as well. The Jolida 102 or B is a very good candidate to meet your needs, especially when paired with any of the Heritage line. It will certainly give you that tube experience you seek and not break your budget to achieve it. If you have a dealer within your area, you may be able to arrange a 102B as loaner for evaluation. This would give you first hand experience with a tube unit and being its an integrated, you won't have to buy a preamp. Power wise the 102/B should be more than adequate, given your listening area. Wes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 I vote for a Scott 299 or an Eico HF-81 and HFT-90 tuner AND a Rega Planet CD player). You then have an all tube setup for your two channel. If you don't like vintage then a DIY Ella (www.diycable.com) would be very nice and I believe better than the Jolida. You could still afford the Rega and have a nice two channel system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale W Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 moon: you have to watch what you send to craig !!! some amps he does'nt like to give back . There like his children . lol He loves them and cudles up with them at night, you know tube amps will keep you warm. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted March 11, 2003 Author Share Posted March 11, 2003 Forgetting about watts, what makes one tube amp better than the other? Is it just the tubes? And if so, from what I have read on the board it seems as though you can change tubes right? Now, would image that there are certiain types of tubes that will work in certian situations, but... What else makes a difference between them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 ---------------- On 3/11/2003 8:50:13 PM Anarchist wrote: I vote for a Scott 299 or an Eico HF-81 and HFT-90 tuner AND a Rega Planet CD player). You then have an all tube setup for your two channel. If you don't like vintage then a DIY Ella (www.diycable.com) would be very nice and I believe better than the Jolida. You could still afford the Rega and have a nice two channel system. ---------------- Agree IF you can purchase a Scott, Eico Integrated and HFT-90 Tuner (Mono) in excellent working condition and cosmetically clean too. Given their prices lately, the likelihood of doing so at a reasonable cost is very slim to none. Most reasonably priced units will require upgrades, and there are also the costs associated with shipment to and from the restorer. I do believe in the musical benefits that vintage can afford, as I have vintage components as well. However, getting my units restored to their former performance levels did require additional dollars. My suggestion for the Jolida 102/B does not hinge on it being better than some vintage or later tube components. More from the point for anyone seeking to get into tubes with a minimal outlay of dollars. The Jolida 102/B is virtually a plug and play unit, and a very good entrance level tube integrated that delivers a very musical presence, especially when one considers its price point. There were several previous suggestions that praised the merits of those same vintage units, therefore I saw no need to rehash the vintage option. If one can buy vintage components with the assurance that they will perform as intended or that the cost for possible upgrades, shipments and insuring their movements remains within their budget, then that is indeed a viable path to travel. I feel that one should consider all potential costs before taking the plunge, especially if they are not certain that tubes will meet their needs. Wes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Wes, Prices on Scott and other amps haven't really changed at all there still selling for $175 to $250 just like they have for the last 2 years. With shipping and rebuild the new owner ends up with $500 to $600 nothings change. What has changed is that there are less pristine examples available. So one has to be more careful choosing his amp. It just takes a little patience. I still say a nice vintage integrated will mop the floor with a Jolida ! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 I like tone controls. With Heritage -- they are nice to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 "...what makes one tube amp better than the other". The total package. The ciruit type, tube type, or parts used -- alone -- don't tell the whole story. It's the engineering skill of the designer who actually knows what the hell he/she is doing, and to bring everything to the table -- including their ears. So Craig, tell me -- what would you rather have? A set of Dynaco MK III's running in ultra-linear with a little bit of feedback, or a Eico, Scott, Fisher, or SET? Don't you even try to lie to me or cough up some total B.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 ---------------- On 3/12/2003 7:45:34 AM NOSValves wrote: Wes, Prices on Scott and other amps haven't really changed at all there still selling for $175 to $250 just like they have for the last 2 years. With shipping and rebuild the new owner ends up with $500 to $600 nothings change. What has changed is that there are less pristine examples available. So one has to be more careful choosing his amp. It just takes a little patience. I still say a nice vintage integrated will mop the floor with a Jolida ! Craig ---------------- Craig, Those are pretty good costs for an integrated that has undergone your careful and expert restoration procedures. It may not leave a lot for a good CD and Tuner when considering a 1K budget. But you probably have a much better feel for what's available than I. No doubt a quality Scott or Eico amp will top the Jolida. As stated earlier, my suggestion to look at a 102/B considered staying within the budget and acquiring a better CD, Tuner and maybe NOS tubes. With patience and careful selection he can certainly put together a good system for the Belles. Glad to see you're doing well and keeping the tubes glowing. Wes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Hey Wes ! Good to see back in action! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Tuner should be secondary to good sound overall. At $600, $400 is left for a good used CD player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Hi lynnm...hope my schedule permits me more time here. Dean..I too would consider more dollars toward a good CD. But I don't do a lot of on air listening either. There are some good low cost options in used Rega Planets. Have seen the Ah! Tjoeb 99 Tube CD player listings with prices from $280-$300. An increase of 200-500 to the budget would open up some great possibilities. Heck, the money m00n's saving on shipment could be reprogrammed to the component budget. Hey m00n, it's more fun to discuss spending your dollars than the two bucks I have. Later, Wes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted March 12, 2003 Author Share Posted March 12, 2003 ---------------- On 3/12/2003 11:54:06 AM ShapeShifter wrote: Heck, the money m00n's saving on shipment could be reprogrammed to the component budget. Hey m00n, it's more fun to discuss spending your dollars than the two bucks I have. Later, Wes ---------------- Eh... we'll see what happens. I am very much trying to avoid rushing out and buying something right now. As you all can tell with my no-end-in-sight of questions, I am doing my research. The tube thing is a whole new world to me. It seems so much more complicated to make the right decision over going and buying some 5.1 receiver. And yeah.. I bet it is spending someone elses money. My wallet is feeling a little empty righ now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 You're on the right track! Patience and information are key to making good decisions. With Craig's help and others here, I've no doubt you will put together a great 2 channel system. Enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 I think the answer for you is the venerable Fisher 500C. I have had mine for over 25 years and it's still in use in my "garage" system. It's got a really, really nice FM tuner, a robust 7591 amps and a really very good preamp. I think that this is the BEST all-tube receiver ever made and I'll probably never sell mine. Here's a decent one that sold recently on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3010268186&category=3279 Typically, you can get a really minty one for about $500 to $600--about double what they sold for just 3-4 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted March 12, 2003 Author Share Posted March 12, 2003 ---------------- On 3/12/2003 1:00:14 PM I Hate Everyone wrote: Typically, you can get a really minty one for about $500 to $600--about double what they sold for just 3-4 years ago. ---------------- What has been happening over the last few years to make tubes so much more popular? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Good old fashioned proselytizing (when this board started there were only a couple of us using systems like mine). This revival seems to have gone hand in hand with the interest in phono gear. Old stuff--especially old tube stuff--romps with vinyl. Retro is "in." "Second-tier" vintage tube gear represents an INCREDIBLE level of performance per dollar invested. Plus, it's really FUN--much more "hands-on" than plunking down your hard-earned cash at Good Guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregorius Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Greetings Gentlemen, I second the motion for the Fisher tube receivers. I have a 800C, the same as a 500C with the addition of the AM band. I paid $200 for mine off of ebay, and I use it almost every day with my Khorns. It sounds great with vinyl, listening to NPR, and CD's. It puts out about 30W per channel, and with Klipsch Heritage anything past halfway will run you out of the room. Regards, Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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