Bill H. Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Jim, JT and all- Thanks for clearing up my questions. The picture was a great way, all at once, to see the differences in the Hertiage lineup............. Now you've wet my intrest all I have to do is find a pair of Good Conwalls for sale! Mike-thanks for much for a wonderful new experience with the HK 430! WOW........................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Ok, so am I to understand that bass response it the judgement crtieria for a speaker choice? I have a pair of 1975 Belles and I believe the 54HZ figure is not correct. Once upon a time I believe Ray Garrison posted the frequency response curves of several Heritage speakers and the Belle had the smoothest curve of them. I have also owned Cornwalls and my preference with my SET system is still the horn loaded Belles. There are those who surely prefer Cornwalls, but to state that Belles have no bottom end, and therefore must automaticly be augmented by a subwoofer, is not justice to a great sounding speaker. The hardware used in the system is VERY important and can't be stressed enough. Corner placement and a solid floor or otherwise augemented base will make a difference also. Building and employing "False corners", as many employ with Khorns, I would also consider a good option if corner placement is not available to enhance the bass response. I should also mention that I am not listening to classical organ or headbanger Fender Bass backed music. Mostly Jazz, some R&B, Blues, Rock & Roll, Reggae, a pinch of classical. I also know that if using tube amplification, Belles respond well in the lower frequency, and would recommend tube rectification as a desired design consideration in your choice of amp/preamp to use with them. Choice of rectifier tubes can be extremely influential to the sound. A vintage tube Scott, Eico, Fisher, or other quality brand tube PP amplifier is the place to start for enjoying your Belles. I see Scotts available on Audiogon and would generally expect higher quality units to be found there as opposed to ebay, and at prices under $400. Other more current models and brands can even be had for around $600-$800. Forget solid state. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Istari Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 I'm pretty sure the lower end for the Belle is 45 hz not 54. At least it was in the pre 2002 models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flason Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 I have a pair of 81 LaScala's and a pair of 87 Cornwall II's. I use the Las in 2 channel while the CW's occupy the home theater. I have only used SS as I am having NOS fix up a Scott 299C. I have done a lot of interchanging and for music, the Las have the CW's beat. Las powered via a HK730 through a Carver TFM35x . The CW's in this set-up lacked the presence the Las brought to the mids. It is very lifelike whether listening to Bocelli or Bananarama. The Las did lack the extreme bass extension of the CW's but anything lower than what the Las has to offer sounds like distortion to me. They will still put a serious thumping in the room but won't shake your bowles loose, which is a good thing. My KLF30's are the closest sounding speakers to the Cornwall's that I have heard. Well actually, I have listened to Mike Lindsey's Chorus and Chorus II's and they were just a little closer to the CW's then my KLF's. Moon, It sounds to me like you are on the search for the Holy Grail. Take it from me, a guy that has migrated from KG5.5, Hersey, KG4, KLF30, Cornwall II, and LaScalas, the Belle's will be the closest thing to the Klipschorns. You don't need to look back at the rest, just look at the 1 in front of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted March 31, 2003 Author Share Posted March 31, 2003 Flason, I love the sound of the belle, I really do. I guess I am just used to a bit more of a fullness in the bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Moon, Wait until you get your Belles working properly. I don't think you can judge the bass performance on half a pair of Belles! After listining to 2 fully functioning Belles for a few weeks if you decide you need a sub bring in one of your RSWs and see how well in integrates...you may be pleasantly surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCturboT Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 ---------------- On 3/31/2003 6:42:37 PM jazman wrote: Forget solid state. ---------------- jazman, While some Solid State does not mate well with Klipsch horns I don't get how you can make a blanket statement like "forget solid state". While no expert in the tube department having owned only 2 tube amplifiers I appreciate both tubes and SS.The both have their own distinct advantages and disadvantages. While tubes might be the way to go with music such as classic and jazz Solid State just is my choice with Heavy Metal and Hard Rock. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Istari Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 I've read some of PWKs Dope from Hope newsletters and found that the Cornwall has significantly higher distortion levels than the Belle or any of the other fully horn loaded models. He did also state that though the Cornwall put out higher distortion levels than the fully horn loaded Heritage models, it distortion was far lower that other manufacturer's best models. Though PWK did develop the Heresey for center channel use with the Klipschorns and did use the Cornwall as a center channel also, he came out and said that they shouldn't be used as centers anymore since the La Scala and Belle were developed. He stated that the overall sound quality was reduced due to the higher distortion introduced by the directly radiated bass. Its in the Dope from Hope papers that Artto was able to share. So, the Cornwall is a great speaker, its not a match for a fully horn loaded Heritage model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Well, the Belle is named after Paul's first (I believe) wife. As far as I know (and I'm only speculating, here), PWK never was married to a gal named "Cornwall" (or "KSP-400", for that matter). There's the diff for ya. fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted March 31, 2003 Author Share Posted March 31, 2003 ---------------- On 3/31/2003 8:35:16 PM edster00 wrote: Moon, Wait until you get your Belles working properly. I don't think you can judge the bass performance on half a pair of Belles! After listining to 2 fully functioning Belles for a few weeks if you decide you need a sub bring in one of your RSWs and see how well in integrates...you may be pleasantly surprised. ---------------- Yeah, I know your right... I should not be to hasty to judgement considering one is cripled right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCturboT Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Moon, Don't know if you been asked this yet-what is your music preferrence? Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted March 31, 2003 Author Share Posted March 31, 2003 Rock, some classical, some pop, new age. Mostly I listen to the radio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 "While tubes might be the way to go with music such as classic and jazz Solid State just is my choice with Heavy Metal and Hard Rock." I dunno, I tend to like my metal on tubes, nice and clean. White Zombie "La Sexorcisto" seems to be cuttin' it just fine on the little Eico PP's, IMO. But, to each his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCturboT Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Mike, Put on Godsmack/Tool/Metallica on tubes-then listen again on SS.There are bass notes that are smeared together with tubes.Not so with SS-tight,quick bass,this is where Solid State shows it advantage. Now with other styles of music like Jazz,Folk,or Classical where it is not as demanding or constant as Metal and its a whole new ballgame,but this is not my cup of tea. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Godsmack is for girls, Metallica died with Cliff Burton. Tool's only good album was Opiate, musically. (Though most of Tool's new stuff is pretty well recorded.) I don't worry about bass smearing, I have the big SVS 16/46's with SS on the bottom end. Listening to Exodus: "Another lesson in violence". Like I said, to each his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 ---------------- On 3/31/2003 7:12:57 PM The Hobbit wrote: I'm pretty sure the lower end for the Belle is 45 hz not 54. At least it was in the pre 2002 models. ---------------- I rechecked old '83 Klipsch catalogs, and the frequency response for the Belle Klipsch then was 45Hz-17kHz+/-5dB. Go to Klipsch's website and look up today's response on the Belles, and it's 54Hz-17kHz+/-3dB. Either one could be a typo, or the response has changed over the years. The Belle Klipsch/La Scala use the same compression drivers and woofer drivers as the Klipschorn. Both use only a 2-folded woofer horn that has less bass response than the Klipschorn, though it's still in the range for most music. And I agree that tube amps (PP and/or SET) do wonders for the sound of any Heritage loudspeaker, but to say, "Forget SS" (jazman) is "Bull$hit"...tell that to all the harman/kardon 450 and McIntosh MC250 owners (even Al K. of ALK crossover fame uses MC250/MC50 SS amps for his moded Belles). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCturboT Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Mike, ...and whats White Zombie? Techno sudo Metal with a dance beat? If there was no break between songs you wouldn't know where one song started and the next one began. You run your SVS with a SS bottom end-'nuff said. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Yeah, Yeah.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCturboT Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 No offense Jeff, It's been a long day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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