NOSValves Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Danny, Just posted this is another thread and think iy apply's to your question on a round about way. Yea its pretty interesting that my Mark III's playing at 1 Watt for majority of a givien song often produce 10 watts and above peaks to keep up with the transients ! With a 2A3 SET Paramours I rarely witnessed peaks above 2 watts if you like your music very relaxed I would say SET is definitely the way to go ! Its all subjective like everything else in this hobby. Me I want my music to be reproduced honestly like the artist attended the recording to do not with some magical mystique that I will never hear at a live event ! Audioflynn and I went to see Neil Young and Crazy Horse the weekend before last (Thanks to Audioflynn for the tickets) I was amazed at how similar the entire concert sounded to my system only my system can produce a higher SLP !! The concert was at the DTE music center (Pine Knob) that I believe is acoustically pretty darn good and we had excellent seat ! Oh and Neil Young was awesome !! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 FWIW, no one has ever described me as liking my music very relaxed> ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 danny, lots of different opinions about what is the most important component in the chain. preamps certainly have a significant effect as do your choices of source...I would go on the include choice of IC and speakers cables...anyway, I think anyone would agree the search for ultimate monblocks without careful attention to selecting the other components in ones system would be complete folly. that is why I asked about other components in his system and asked about budget, we never did get any answers to that. but when the conversation turned to ultimate amp we just went off track a little, thanks for focusing us again on the original issue...regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 "My question is do I stay with the Wrights and spend the $1500 plus on a new pre or upgrade the Dynaco's and stay with the AES." First off your comparing apples to bananas. Different topologies are going to give you different sound characteristics in all aspects. You will definitely hear a difference comparing the Wrights to the Marks, for sure. Once you decifer what presentaion suits you then consider if a upgrade in preamp would even be necessary,i.e. you like the 2A3 topology over the Marks, sell of the Marks, upgrade your pre and your SET for life! On the other hand the Marks suit your wants & needs, sell off your 2A3's and AES, you can upgrade your amps & pre. Problem resolved!! Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Painful, nice to see you lurking out there ... I was wondering if you ever posted but I found your comments on the Tenor very interesting, esp. with regard to your Lamhorns. It would appear there is still a significant upside there, but I have to say that my Jean-Francois Lessard "specials" will give your Tenors a run for their money. Please contribute more often, time permitting ... we need some of your input here ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 VTL Ultimate is as good as its name . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Chris, Yes that was the first time I have seen "painful" posting...I think his days as a lurker should come to an end though I understand his hesitancy to post here since he is so famous now (wink, wink, nudge, nudge). regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Chris, If you'll try the type A crossovers, you'll enjoy your amps even more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Danny, I would have to say that I could have easily lived with the AE-3 and Wright SET combo FOREVER. It was a very nice combo that made wonderful music. You might upgrade but I'm not sure if you'll find the additional money really well spent. The AES and Wrights make for very FINE bedfellow. Of course if you're going into the Big Leagues (e.g., JFL stuff), then all bets are off. JMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painful Reality Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Danny, the guy asked for ULTIMATE monoblocks... I told him what was my ultimate. Ultimate IS ultimate. Or was it ultimate with regards to cost... Sanely ultimate maybe? If we consider the "I am flat broke but I want to get the ultimate for my pocket money": I'd vote for the Bogen MO-100A. About nobody knows about these gems. They can be bought on eBay for anything between 25 USD a pair to 100 USD a pair. Yep the tubes are the 8417 but if you can lay your hand on these, I bet you'll like these. These amps were the inspiration behind the Quicksilver 8417 mono amplifiers. Don't want the the 8417? Craig at NOS Valves will surely be glad to modify them to get EL34. Now for a "ultimate in the vintage departement"... Go for a Quad II. Good Lord why doesn't this amp do not get more coverage around here? These are MARVELOUS amps. The cathode feedback winding was brilliant. In my opinion these Quad amps schred ANY McIntosh to pieces (but that's my opinion and others will surely disagree). Dynacos, Eicos, Fisher, Scott might be really nice but for me the vintage amp of choice is the ugly Quad II. Be sure to stay miles away from the crappy reisue they put out recently. Don't get these on eBay as they can run into serious money. Swap them at pawn shops. It must be said that the Quad II must be the only thing out of UK that is not plagued with QC problems. You want something new, doesn't need to feel like front row at a Grateful Dead concert, but you haven't a fortune to spend? A soldering iron for you means a way to hurt yourself?... Ultimate (SET wise) might come with the Wright 2A3 monoblocks. These are delightful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 rf3iicrazy, Beware of the law of diminishing returns. Roughly translated, it means you'll have to spend much, much, more, to only get marginal improvements in your system once at a certain performance level. "I" feel that the preamp is a very important component in the audio chain, but so is every other component. Ask yourself questions like where you intend to end up as for as speakers, type of music you listen to most, and how you want to hear that music presented? If you really like your Wrights, possibly Moondogs, or Welborne Labs newest 2A3 design, or maybe Audio Note 2A3 monoblocks could be the amplification upgrade you seek. If the lure of more headroom and perceived dynamics is your goal, I think there are better options available than Mark III's, Dean's Quick Silvers being a good example, but there's VTL, BAT, Air Tight, etc. The possibilties of combinations are endless, let your musical satisfaction and your pockets be your guide. Make a move ONLY when you feel you're not getting enough from your system. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Jazzman, I'm aware of the law of deminishing returns. VTL, BAT, Air Tight, now were talking about dream amps there. My Marks were purchased & I modded with new front end boards, power supply upgrade, and retubed them for a total of about $800.00. Granted, I save on the labor by doing it myself, but even if you had to pay a tech to do the work, its performance will be hard pressed to be matched by anything in its tube topology & price point.JMHO. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Jazzman, I'm aware of the law of deminishing returns. VTL, BAT, Air Tight, now were talking about dream amps there. My Marks were purchased & I modded with new front end boards, power supply upgrade, and retubed them for a total of about $800.00. Granted, I save on the labor by doing it myself, but even if you had to pay a tech to do the work, its performance will be hard pressed to be matched by anything in its tube topology & price point.JMHO. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 The Quad II's are very nice but they sound too slow. Any vintage Marantz or Radford tube amp is way better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 ---------------- On 6/30/2003 8:06:08 PM StickMan wrote: Searching for the ultimate monoblocks to use with my 1987 KHorns. Anyone have a recommendation? How about the Cary 805c's? If you have heard KHorns with these SET monoblocks please give me your comments. ---------------- ULTIMATE MONOBLOCKS 500WPC -- BY AUDIO RESEARCH -- AVAILABLE ON AUDIOGON FOR $39,990.00 FOR THE PAIR SORRY, NO REMOTE AVAILABLE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 If I only had 40 grand to blow ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StickMan Posted July 2, 2003 Author Share Posted July 2, 2003 Follow up on the "Ultimate" mono blocks: My current rig consists of: Sony SCD-777ES SACD Audio Research LS3 preamp VTL 125 mono blocks EL34's run in the "triode" mode 1987 KHorns (internal wire replaced in 2001) JPS Labs Superconductor+ interconnects DH Labs Silver Sonic T14 speaker cable The VTL's are very good. Their strenghts include awesome pace and rhythm (swing), convincing bass, and excellent dynamics. But they are not as convincing as a SET. They don't provide that 'in-the-room' feeling you can get when listening to a good SET. The only SET I have tried was an Art Audio PX-25. Very wonderful except that it seemed to slow things down just a bit too much. Decided I couldn't live with the reduction in swing. It just didn't produce the toe-tapping swing that I get with the VTL's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painful Reality Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 ---------------- On 7/2/2003 8:21:12 PM mdeneen wrote: Oh---THOSE "MkIIIs" - - killer. mdeneen ---------------- Maybe but there's no remote... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 Another kind word about the 8417's. The Quicksilver 8417's really weren't based on the Bogen circuit. That circuit came out of Mike's head. After I bought my M-60's I called Mike Sanders several times with questions about it. I also wanted a schematic to the amp, which he said he didn't have. He said "the circuit is so simple you really don't need one". At any rate, at some point I brought up the 8417's -- and he shared an interesting story about them. He said that after he came up with the design and put them in production, he was reading a review where the reviewer said they were "based on the Bogen circuit". He had no idea what the reviewer was talking about, so he went and dug up the info on the Bogen. He told me, "sure enough -- same circuit". His point was that there was nothing really new under the sun. That Monster is kind of frightening. I couldn't even afford the retube. Vintage: Isn't the Quad mentioned actually the first amp to use "partial triode" -- which ended up being called "Ultra-linear" by Hafler and Keroes. I'm not sure, but I think Quad actually came up with the feedback loop thing off the transformer first, but the Hafler and Keroes version is what ended up becoming famous. They may have not been exactly the same, but I think the concept was similiar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 thanks stickman for the details of the system. well, in a way, you answered you own question. if the art audio SET sounded a little slow (though you did not mention if any other aspects of its sound pleased you) then you may be a candidate for another DHT topology, one that gives some jump and "umph" to the music. the art audio is supposed to be a good representative of what SET has to offer (I have not heard it but I have seen many of the comments/reviews) you may not be pleased by other SET amps base don low power tubes. you might try 300B or 845 SETs to see if either float your boat BUT I suggest taking also trying to listen to a DHT PP, lots of jump factor with a lot of the nice family values of DHT...you can hear 2A3 and 300B PP SE amps quite easily in many high-end audio stores, the brand I mentioned above. someone else may be able to ring in about whether they feel the art audio is a good ambassador for SET sound or whether you need to audtion other SET offerings. give the DHT PP SE a try, listen and let us know, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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