middlecreekguy Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Well, he`s done it. Arnold Schwarzenegger has done what no other actor or almost anyone has ever done. He won the governor`s seat without ever holding office. I`m sure someone else out there has done it. Jesse Ventura did hold an office of some sort before he became Governor. Who else has replicated this feat? I myself voted no on recall not because I was such a fan of Gray Davis but the recall amendment is such a hair trigger tool. You know it only takes 850,000 signatures to start a recall. There are 35 million people in California. You don`t think the other side is not going to start a petition on a recall of their own. But Arnold is not just the other side. He`s more like the middle side. Moderate with a left lean. Better described as more Bill Clinton than Ronald Reagan. Groping not included. This story just intrigues me so. I never thought in the beginning when he first talked about running that he could win. But the night he announced you could just feel it. He had the name, the money and said the right things like good politicians do. This state is in trouble and will be for a long time no matter who is Governor. It`s going to take someone to bring both sides together to do the work that needs to be done to even begin to rectify the problems at hand. I wish him luck. For all of our sakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckears Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 ...Yet another sign of the decline of Western Civilization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwatkins Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Just so the California folks understand - 38 (by the end of 2004 the number is projected to be 43) of the states are facing the financial delimma of deficit spending. A new state government leader will do little to change that. Arnold will still be facing funding for federally mandated programs that are not backed up by federal funding, then a whole bunch of legislated local programs that have become the equivalent of air (free for all) to many folks. Tough job - nowadays you are expected to be smart enough to change the slide and willing to have your personal life detailed (negatively) when trying to get the job. I have to go - but would gladly enter into a discussion (elsewhere) about why we should be more interested in the current separation of federal and local instead of the separation of church and state... Cheers to all CA - you did make the newspapers interesting for a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 I heard on NPR this AM that he's got an $8 billion deficit to fix. If he repeals the car tax, that's another $4 bil. I don't see that happening, even if he changes his name to Arnold Shriver-Kennedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelShaffer Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 If I were him the first thing I would do is kick all the illegals out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 ---------------- On 10/8/2003 9:37:12 AM MichaelShaffer wrote: If I were him the first thing I would do is kick all the illegals out. ---------------- At least stop giving them money!! It's small potatoes I know but come on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stan krajewski Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Congrats to Arnold. Had the ex-governer remotely attempted to do what is right (correct) , Arnold wouldn't be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Yeah this is an odd situation. I think if there is one positive outcome of this, is that it demonstrates to the government that we the people do have the power to replace you if you are not doing your job. In my opinion, this will force more politicians to be held responsible for their actions and daily duties. Think about it... They work for US (the people) and in my honest opinion we should not have to sit back and take it where the sun don't shine. If I came to work everyday and did nothing productive or things that were not in the best interest of my company, do you think I would still have a job? When politicians are elected into office, basically they are being hired to do a job just like any joe blow. If they are not doing their job, why should they not be held accountable. Granted, people can elect someone else next go around, but still.... We put them there to work for us, we aught to have the right to knock them down off that pedistal they sit apon. The politicians are OUR employees! We are not their little lemmings who should just roll over and accept what they do. If you ask me, they have granted themselves too much power over the years. Yeah, I support this recall thing. It will make the politicians start thinking. Not sure if Arnold is the solution though... Think about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 If I were as rich as Ahhnold. I would just enjoy my money. Being Governor has got to be one of the worst and thankless jobs I can think of. He must be a glutton for punishment. JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 J/M, you could not be more dead on the money. You have got to wonder what his motive is... Does he really care? Or is he just looking for more fame and what not? Really does make you wonder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 I'll say one thing - he will have a easier time getting permits for his next film I am glad Davis is out. Though I live in Nevada, our family has lots of business dealings in the Bay Area and the last thing Davis cared about was the welefare of the people of California and their futures. The biggest problem will be a ® trying to get legislation passed in a (D) state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodj101 Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 ---------------- On 10/8/2003 11:37:38 AM m00n wrote: Yeah this is an odd situation. I think if there is one positive outcome of this, is that it demonstrates to the government that we the people do have the power to replace you if you are not doing your job. In my opinion, this will force more politicians to be held responsible for their actions and daily duties. Think about it... They work for US (the people) and in my honest opinion we should not have to sit back and take it where the sun don't shine. If I came to work everyday and did nothing productive or things that were not in the best interest of my company, do you think I would still have a job? When politicians are elected into office, basically they are being hired to do a job just like any joe blow. If they are not doing their job, why should they not be held accountable. Granted, people can elect someone else next go around, but still.... We put them there to work for us, we aught to have the right to knock them down off that pedistal they sit apon. The politicians are OUR employees! We are not their little lemmings who should just roll over and accept what they do. If you ask me, they have granted themselves too much power over the years. Yeah, I support this recall thing. It will make the politicians start thinking. Not sure if Arnold is the solution though... Think about it. ---------------- I agree with your comment that politicians have come to hold too much power, far too much. we are almost living in more of a dictatorship than a democracy. the public has little to no say in what happens, and the latest issues with the war in Iraq are just disgusting. every politician involved in bending the facts to make war seem like an acceptable course of action should be impeached and jailed. if I had the money aronld does I would use it to buy insider tips and expose the current US government for what it really is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwatkins Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Hey moon - good points you bring up. I worked to help set a Poly Sci cirriculum for a University here in the great MidSection. One of the candidates for political history left me with an (seemingly accurate)interesting observation of the original intent of our democracy. It seems that when you look at the original concept we were talking about a 'representative' democracy where a group of representatives were elected and they then chose the rest of the governing body (excluding the President which was chosen from another group of 'kind of like' representatives). In this form the representatives were elected on the premise that they would represent as they saw fit. It is based on the premise that with a grander view of things the representative would vote for the good of the whole and not just the few. In essence, then as well as now, there is no mandate that the elected official represent the majority of the electorate that is responsible for their election. California is exercising 'Popular'(my term - shooting from the hip here) democracy in that the voters are saying the elected official has to represent me (being the majority) and is not free to exercise autonomous decisioning (that is what a recall is all about). That is an interesting evolution of democracy that would probably make our founding fathers believe that ruin, death and destruction is just around the corner. I wish I could have a right/wrong feeling about the two choices. It seems only right that in national security situations depending on confidentiality that our elected officials do not confer with constituents. On the other hand, satisfying personal goals in lieu of the 'good of the whole' really ticks me off. The original intent really wasn't hampered by the freedoms that have come since - women can now vote, non landowners have a better say, non-whites can now participate, etc. Geesh - what an easy job they had Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Only in the USA... Do you have an former actor becoming a president... Do you have a former wrestler becoming governor... Do you have the Terminator becoming governor... Porn stars and midgets running for governor of California!Tough competition for the man of a few words. What is next a large breasted pOOrn star will win the elections? LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Careful, EAR. It's OK for natives to poke fun, but foreigners -- that's another matter. LOL. Look what happened to Kain? Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 While I agree with the abiltiy to have the recall, I do see Ear's point. It did turn into a circus that was rather embarrasing. And furthermore, I hope that this exercise that California just went through does not promote a huge cult following so to speak where there are small pockets of people who do not like some elected offical and start a recall... I think there needs to be a VERY valid basis for a recall, if not, politicians will have an even more stressfull job. They need to be given the freedoms to do what's right, but not have to worry about un-necessary recall elections. California? Good luck. Hope it works out for you. I would have voted for McClintoc (Sp?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 As a Candian/American/Californian, I say go for it Ear! Just a few comments... Ronald Regan was governor of California before he was president. He never held political office before that. So, Arnold is not the first. And Regan was IMHO the best governor the state has had in at least the last 30+ years. Recall has been in the California constitution since 1911. There have been several attempts to recall one officer or another. This was the first one where enough registered voters signed the petition to get it on the ballot. It took the validated signatures of 12% of the voters in the 2002 election just to do that. This not an easy thing to do. And the signatures were gathered in record time. Considering the margin Arnold won by, I doubt the Democrats are going to mount another recall. California has three important safeguards for voters: recall, referendum and initiative. They make life interesting for politicians sometimes. But they help ensure that government serves the needs of the people and is not dominated by professional politicians. The initiative process has been particullary important, resulting in significant changes, including term limits and property tax reform. Locally, a referendum prevented the state from building a freeway through part of my county where the residents did not want it. The Democrats deserted Davis and Bustamante enmasse for Arnold to be elected. This was not just the Republicans at work playing dirty tricks. They could not have recalled Davis, or gotten Arnold elected, on their own. The people of California, Democrats, Republicans and independents, are fed up. They are sending a message to all politicians. Hopefully the politicians will take heed. Replacing the governor is not going to fix the problem. The problem is a result of the reckless spending by the legislature over the past 30 years. Every time revenue went up, they locked in future spending based on at least that level of revenue. Arnold can clean house all he wants, but he won't be able to fix what is wrong by himself. Approximately 2/3 of the budget is legally fixed, comprising funding for education, transfer payments, etc. Consider this: Arnold could fire every state employee and it wouldn't solve the problem. California cannot legally run a deficit. It is prohibited by the constitution. What happened is that the proposed budget fell short of the anticipated revenue by around $38 billion. The legislature and governor Davis did nothing to close this gap. What they did was use internal borrowing, bond issues, and other smoke an mirrors to shift the burden to other fiscal years. Some of these are likely to be undone in the courts. Some are just ludicrous. The budget even assumes the indian casinos will give about $500 million to the state above what they have indicated they will give. I was going to vote against recall because Davis is not the real cause of the problems. But Davis did two unforgiveable things IMHO. He signed the smoke and mirrors budget, knowing full well what it was, without first vetoing it, kicking it back to the legislature, and making them do better. And he signed a bill giving illegal aliens drivers licenses. But most folks seem to have voted for recall because Davis is the most visible target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 ---------------- On 10/8/2003 8:24:05 PM Malcolm wrote: most folks seem to have voted for recall because Davis is the most visible target. --------------- There is so much truth to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Ear, in Italy they actually elected a female porn star to their legislature, and IIRC for more than one term. Her name was Ciciolina. And as screwed up as California may seem, as my friend who is returning to Hong Kong said: "California is a real nice place to live." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Malcom what part of california are you from? I was born in Oakdale which is central Ca. Lived there until I was 9 when we moved up to Oregon. The cool thing about california is that it has something for everyone. Beach, mountians, desert, gold, farmland the stunning Yosemite park on and on.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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