dubai2000 Posted November 1, 2003 Share Posted November 1, 2003 I wasnt sure where to post the following, but as I will be referring to music, I decided to chose this section of the forum. I know there are a lot of you, who either find the bass of their Khorns sufficient, or believe that only a horn loaded sub can augment these speakers properly. I most certainly respect their opinion, but my experience is somewhat different: For whatever reason (and I suspect mainly the size of my listening room) I have always noticed that listening to a recording of the bass/drum section of a classical orchestra somehow didnt sound right. Of course the sheer volume of sound produced in a concert hall must sound different to a recording in a (European=small) living room, but you know how it goes, we try to get as close the real stuff as possible. So no matter which amp was used (ss or tube), the size of the bass drum (for example) just was not quite correct in relation to the rest of the orchestra. Again, I know how room dependent bass sounds are, but I had to live with the situation at hand. Some years ago (in my pre-Klipsch days) I bought a REL sub based on very positive reviews and yes, this sub integrated quite well with my previous speakers (although some people also say Quads dont go with subs!), but still there was the difference mentioned above. Shortly after I had joined the forum, I started noticing very positive comments about SVS. I posted a few questions to them (indicating I was not ready to buy) and was very pleasantly surprised about the speed of their answers and the patience they had with me. To cut a long story short, I finally decided to order a PB2-ISD. The sub arrived two days ago (superbly packed) and was moved into the only available space next to my right Khorn. Boy, this sub is big and although I had checked its measurements, I was slightly surprised how voluminous big can be! Getting it connected to my preamp was no problem (using a Y-adaptor, it is feed from the preamps output parallel to the power amp). So did I notice a difference to the REL? Yes, I did. The first thing I couldn't miss was that it sounds much tighter than the REL (no mid/upper bass boominess), and that it plays deeper goes without saying. Adjusting it to the Khorns was not much of an issue (at least until now), but of course one is tempted to turn it up too much. When doing so, the bass drum at the beginning of Mahlers Tenth symphony (Chailly DECCA recording) made everything shake inside the room inclusive the floor (made of concrete!). So obviously this was overkill! Reducing the subs volume made me reach a stage at which the bass blends really well with the Khorns (at least to my ears and those of another Klipsch owner). At last the bass drum (if recorded properly!) has the size and weight which lends tremendous realism to good recordings. Have I ever listened to something similar? Yes, in a way the Revel (B15?) sub I listened to a few weeks ago lent similar authority to an orchestra, but that is far more expensive! So how to summarize the first days with the Khorn/SVS combo? I know that at last I can listen to any CD/LP without worrying that I might miss some bass sounds if theyve been recorded, the sub will produce them with authority and realism at last pipe organs begin to sound real! I know that for this listener, the quest for a truly realistic speaker set-up has ended - and I really think you should give those SVS subs a try (after all, shipment is much less costly for you and in case of not liking what you hear, you can always return the sub) they do enhance the realism of recorded music in a very big way indeed !!! Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craighorn Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 I also use a pair of SVS 16-46PC Plus from SVS. The rest of my system is a pair of 1991 Klipschorns, a McIntosh MA-6900 integrated amp ( its dual pre-outs made the set-up a snap ! ), a tube CD player, and a Pioneer Sacd-DVD audio rig. I have the low pass on the SVS set at the lowest ( appx. 40 hz. crossover... ) ... and they sound great with the Klipsch. SVS, so far, is the only sub I have had that integrates so well. Now I have Klipsch that goes to 16 Hz... hard to beat ! My full review is on the SVS site... suffice it to say we got appx. 110 db at 16 hz in the room... amazing.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 Wolfram, I'm happy to hear you're enjoying the SVS. I've heard a few khorn systems I thought would be enhanced by the addition of a good sub. I'm glad it's working for you. Always nice when new gear meets or exceeds your expectations! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 wolfram, congrats on the new addition! it surprises me that such a small unit can keep up with the k-horns. It just might get me to buy into the sub idea. tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted November 3, 2003 Author Share Posted November 3, 2003 Tony, SMALL? I don't know how spacious your listening room might be, but small is not really the first adjective that comes to my mind when looking at the sub. Have you been to the SVS website and checked its measurements ? Anyway, DO consider such an addition to your set-up. I am still adjusting the sub's volume (up again ) but I still think it's the first time I am getting close to the real thing (i.e. a live concert of an orchestra) in terms of bass performance - and the best thing: the sub seems to integrate really well with the Khorns (though others will shake their heads), the sub only adds punch when necessary - no mid/upper bass boom (i.e. no artificially blown up bass notes when listening to a good recording of an acoustic bass). So I am still happy . Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 Wolfram (et al.), I've been considering adding a newer sub to my 2-channel system, and eventually moving it into a listening room room later. I currently use a KSW-15 in my HT system, and for videos/movies, it seems fine. I actually selected it since it was the most Klipsch sub I could fit in a ported window seat (see link in footer for picture of HT). As you know, I'm currently using Lessard Horus SET, and it does a very nice job with lower registers (as SET goes), so I was curious how you (Wolfram) selected the SVS model you did. Looking at their website, this one appears to be well suited to music in particular. As you know, the last thing I want to do with a sub is to muddy the lower registers with a mediocre sub. Another question was the difference between the cube sub and the cylinder sub ... Not sure what the audible differences are, but I'd be okay with going in either direction ... Thanks for your thoughts. _______________________________ Music Hall MMF-7 Turntable w/ Goldring Eroica H MC Njoe Tjoeb 4000 CDP Wright Sound WPP-100C Phono Stage JF Lessard Pantheon 6SN7 SRPP Preamp w/ RCA 5R4GY & Sylvania 6SN7 JF Lessard Horus Parafeed Cobalt 2A3 Monoblocks w/ Tung Sol 5687 & AVVT 2A3 1976 KCBR Klipschorns with ALK Crossovers Gear Online: Two Channel & Home Theater Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 I also joined the sub club recently. I didn't think I was down on bass until I heard my LaScalas with a Velodyne sub (crossing at 100 Hz.). Within a week I went and got a second one for better room fill. What an improvement for a pair of LaScalas, and I only bought the economy Velodyne models. There are certainly much better out there. I really liked the SVSs but chickened out since I couldn't hear them before buying. One thing I found is that in general I only need a small amount of output for my situation and my room is 24 x 32 with vaulted ceilings. I'm using very little of the sub power for a big room and still getting a dramatic impact. I'm happy with the addition of subs for the LaScalas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 Wolfram: Congrats on your PB2-ISD. I have owned mine for almost a year now, and the sub never ceases to amaze me. I run mine with its crossover engaged at 50hz, and it provides a seamless blend in two-channel with my RF-7s. As you have already found out, the sub is quite musical, providing tight, clean bass to compliment all different kinds of music. Frankly, its a shame that many perceive all SVS subs to be only good for cannon shots or depth charges just because many use them strictly for HT duty and then brag about their cat (or something such) being blown across the room (during a movie). Enjoy. Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 One thing I found is that in general I only need a small amount of output for my situation and my room is 24 x 32 with vaulted ceilings. I'm using very little of the sub power for a big room and still getting a dramatic impact. I'm happy with the addition of subs for the LaScalas. Same here. I borrowed both a small Paradigm PDR-10 and a Magnat (12 inch). Both could match the La Scala in volume by setting them at their mid point. Both helped the bass a bit. Then I purchased a Hsu STF-3. It matches the La Scala volume at a bit under 1/6 on its volume dial and adds _so much more_ to the bass. A bass drum finally sounds real and pounds you in the chest. I really recommend a sub with La Scala's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 Peter: You make a good point about incorporating a sub into your music mix. Even if your mains are quite capable of handling most or some of the low stuff (my RF-7s are supposed to go down to 32HZ), a nice sub helps fill in the bottom end, even with running your mains on Large (SS) or through a traditional tube linestage. As a result, your sub compliments the bass from your mains instead of replacing/surplanting the bass. You can still feel major impact and improvement by using a subwoofer in two-channel, even with the sub at a lower setting (volume). For a while, I ran my two-channel without sub(s) because "I did not have to," but putting one back into the mix provides an improvement. Nice to hear from another HSU owner. My VTF-2 does SACD/DVD-Audio duties with my primary system. HSU makes nice subs. Different sounding (SVS vs. HSU), but I appreciate both. Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 I have never held that corner horns needed subwoofers. At least not in my albeit imperfect listening room. There is very little in music that goes down below 40Hz, anyway! Bass guitar- no, some large drums, yes, and pipe organs, certainly. But Khorns do low 30's. How much lower do you need to go? Ok, if I need to hear tape-rumble, etc. then fine, but I hear it when its there anyway without a sub... Now for HT, that's another story! DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 Interesting article......... Just this morning I spoke with my better half about supplementing our stereo with an SVS. She just rolled her eyes. Some women just do not understand the whole upgrade thing. ............. ..Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 ---------------- On 10/1/2004 3:12:15 PM D-MAN wrote: I have never held that corner horns needed subwoofers. At least not in my albeit imperfect listening room. There is very little in music that goes down below 40Hz, anyway! Bass guitar- no, some large drums, yes, and pipe organs, certainly. But Khorns do low 30's. How much lower do you need to go? Ok, if I need to hear tape-rumble, etc. then fine, but I hear it when its there anyway without a sub... Now for HT, that's another story! DM ---------------- For some, its not a matter of need, but want. Sure, after going with separates, I no longer needed a sub with my RF-7s. The bass response on my RF-7s is fantastic. However, adding a sub gently back into the mix provides more force and impact for certain songs, without a correspondence degradation in the quality of the sound. Agreed, there are few musical instruments that go below 40 hz, but there are some. And why not supplement the bass on certain songs, between 40-50, if it sounds good. The addition of a sub to certain organ pieces provides nice additional impact (plus, add a sub to Rick Wakeman's work - outstanding). Having the sub available affords me the option of leaving it on or turning it off, depending on the music type. All a matter of taste. Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted October 1, 2004 Author Share Posted October 1, 2004 Chris, what a beautiful room. I chose this particular SVS model after having exchanged some mails with Tom V. He believed (quite rightly I think) that this sub will provide all the output I need for a dedicated music system. Plus I needed to put the TV on the sub (no other space available). As you can see I have been using the SVS for a year now and I couldn't be happier (and wouldn't want to be without it). Perhaps it's my room, but none of my amps provides enough weight to the bass section of an orchestra (without sub that is). I really cannot find that the unit spoils the sound of the Khorns in any way (but perhaps I am too biased or my ears are not accute enough). I'd say give an SVS a try (after all it can be returned if not liked). I no longer feel that the gap between 'live' and reproduction is as big as before.....and the occasional movie I watch can really be great fun (yes, I really enjoyed the first two Star Wars DVDs.....and the neighbours as well... ). Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 "I also use a pair of SVS 16-46PC Plus from SVS. The rest of my system is a pair of 1991 Klipschorns, a McIntosh MA-6900 integrated amp ( its dual pre-outs made the set-up a snap ! ), a tube CD player, and a Pioneer Sacd-DVD audio rig. I have the low pass on the SVS set at the lowest ( appx. 40 hz. crossover... ) ... and they sound great with the Klipsch. SVS, so far, is the only sub I have had that integrates so well." I'm using a pair of SVS 16/46 CS series with a pair of '83 Cornwalls using a active crossover set at 40 Hz. Whether a sub is needed depends on the music selection, IMO. They ain't needed with Jazz or most older rock, but it's nice to have the kickdrums bumped up a bit on the heavy stuff.(Or other strange music mediums..) Another preference thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorjen Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 Congratulations on the new sub Wolfram. I have had many different SVS setups and Tom and Ron definitely have it goin' on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted October 2, 2004 Author Share Posted October 2, 2004 Thanks everybody for your kind words and although in 'new' is kind of relative with regards to the sub I do enjoy it tremendously and still detect new flavours in CDs/LPs that have not been played for some time (plus I find that a bit of sub adjustment is in order when swapping amps). Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 You guys may have noticed that I bumped this thread to the top a year after Wolfram started it. In my mind, it is still as timely an issue as when he started it. SVS appears to make a very fine line of subs. Others have recommended similar high-end performances, as well as Klipsch. I appreciate all that input. I think I'm going to, for now, focus on the subs with smaller dimensions, and perhaps bookmark one of the taller cylindrical models for when the music room is closer to reality. From what I read, they seem to be the cat's meow. _______________________________ Music Hall MMF-7 Turntable w/ Goldring Eroica H MC Njoe Tjoeb 4000 CDP Wright Sound WPP-100C Phono Stage JF Lessard Pantheon 6SN7 SRPP Preamp w/ RCA 5R4GY & Sylvania 6SN7 JF Lessard Horus Parafeed Cobalt 2A3 Monoblocks w/ Tung Sol 5687 & AVVT 2A3 1976 KCBR Klipschorns with ALK Crossovers Gear Online: Two Channel & Home Theater Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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