Parrot Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 ---------------- On 12/1/2003 4:34:41 AM maxg wrote: 3. A huge swing in my music from Rock to classical. Previously classical was less than 10% of my listening, now it it 90%. ---------------- All right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 ---------------- On 12/1/2003 6:40:59 AM NOSValves wrote: Markdad, Now that was a excellent post ! I love the last sentence Craig ---------------- Me too Craig, but sadly it just aint true. All that happens is that you buy more vinyl records than you would have bought SACD's and the like. Not that this is a bad thing persay - other than from a storage point of view. Todays small haul: 1. Heifetz/Primrose/Piatigorsky - Beethoven Serenade Opus 8 - Living Stereo. (LSC-2550) 2. Dvorak New World symphony - Fritz Reiner / Chicago Symphony - Living Stereo. (LSC-2214) - Yet another copy of this - I need to control myself!! 3. Antonio Vivaldi - The Mandolin Concerti / Concert for Violino Discordato - Musical Heritage Society (MHS 1100). 4. The Unforgetable William Kapell (Khachaturian Piano concerto / Albeniz Evocacion / Liszt Mephisto Waltz / Rachmaninoff 18th Variation - Rhapsody on a Theme by Paganini - RCA Victor Red Seal. (LM 2588) 5. Bach - 3 concertos for Harpsichord and Orchestra (1/4/5) - Vanguard Stereolab (BGS 5009). 6. Beethoven Symphonies 1 and 8 - London FFRR (STS 15032). Nothing like last time. This is from his new lot. Rather disappointing - I was hoping to get more but most were in appauling condition - 50% had missing insert sleeves and the vinyl was trashed (we cleaned about 20 to get to these). At least he didnt charge me for the cleaning!! Still the ones above seemed to play clean on his system - hopefully they will on mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Max, You got a way with putting MY thoughts on paper, Keep it coming! Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 I like LPs because you can get them very cheap a lot of places. I listen to MP3s as well, but am not about to say they sound better than LPs or CDs. Just another osurce to enjoy the music. on the other topic, I think engineers need to stay out of the way of the performance. Mostly what I tried to say earlier, but couldn't get my thoughts together enough. Otherwise, you become a DJ and just make noise from others music. Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 ---------------- On 12/1/2003 6:04:48 AM marksdad wrote: after 1 year of buying lp's over sacd, dvd-a, cd, i will have saved enough money to pay for the tt and the phono pre ---------------- Actually New vinyl costs more than CD and DVDA in my area but it's mostly available at specialty and DJ type shops (I don't have a SACD player, so I don't know for those). The few vinyl albums which do make it into the larger stores (like HMV) are similarly priced... Is the demand large enough in your areas to bring the prices down, or perhaps CD overpriced? Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Rob, I'm pretty sure he is talking used vinyl which runs from free to ? depending on its shape and rarity ! On average I pay about $2 a LP but have paid $25 for 180 grams before ! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 A lot of the 180 gram stuff from big labels has really been a disappointment too. I have bought more than a few Blue Note and Impulse 180g jazz LPs over the last year and it's been a sonic crapshoot, sadly. Some of the specialty manufacturers have been better but just because it's 180g, dont be sure of quality. The big label marketing crew has gotten smart to that bandwagon. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 i don't understand this comment, any1 wanna help me out? "Joe the Engineer Does the Cole Porter Song Book" and i totally agree with this: "I think engineers need to stay out of the way of the performance. Mostly what I tried to say earlier, but couldn't get my thoughts together enough. Otherwise, you become a DJ and just make noise from others music." but i did wanna point out that using different mic'ing techniques and recording methods does not equate to "getting in the way". just because joe over here wants to hear certain things, doesn't mean frank does. and if joe doesn't hear what he wants, the engineer is not to "blame"...that'd be like blaiming an artist for using a different hue than you thought he should have. The only people that are ever wanting "noise from the room" are all old guys listening to jazz and classical...and to be honest, for the longest time classical was all i listened to and it's gotten boring for me...and perhaps in old age i'll learn to appreciate jazz, but i doubt it my point is that you should not have such a narrow viewpoint on what is "music" and what is not...i thought the older generations were supposed to be more open minded? maybe my problem is i keep forgetting that im in america? i don't know how else to explain it, cuz y'all really aren't getting the concept (at least i don't think you are)...not everyone likes to hear what you want to hear. many find it noisy and annoying (haha, sounds like what my parents call my music), but i wouldn't go so far as to call it just noise. i have great respect for classical music; heck i still play viola in an orchestra, but i still don't enjoy listening to it. why do i say CD is better than LP? A lot of the music i listen to would be destroyed by the presence of noise and lack of dynamic range that an LP has...I also find LP's to be rather muddy and lack the quickness that I find with digital recordings. (yes, i've done A/B tests). I won't say CDs are the epitomy of quality, but for me they blow LP outta the water. I don't have personal experience, but my reading makes it seem as if LPs take a lot of tender loving care...even a cheapo CD player is easy to use and sounds fine without any hassle, not to mention CDs are much more durable and portable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 ---------------- On 12/1/2003 3:04:52 PM mobile homeless wrote: A lot of the 180 gram stuff from big labels has really been a disappointment too. I have bought more than a few Blue Note and Impulse 180g jazz LPs over the last year and it's been a sonic crapshoot, sadly. Some of the specialty manufacturers have been better but just because it's 180g, dont be sure of quality. The big label marketing crew has gotten smart to that bandwagon. kh ---------------- I too have been dissappointed with some of the 180 gram lps I've purchased. I own both the cheapo originals and the new expensive 180 gram lps of a few Grateful Dead albums and the old versions, pops and all, blow away the $25-$30 newer, heavier vinyl. I don't know why, but that's just the way it is. Total waste of $$$$. Look for reviews before purchasing is all I can recommend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Dr Who, what music are you stating that sounds much better on CD than vinyl? I actually think you need to hear a good analog system. Also, some of the best indie stuff from the 80s and 90s uses VERY simple recording techniques exactly opposite of what you are talking about. In fact, the college radio scene in the 80s and early 90s released more vinyl than the big guns. Indeed, there were more independent labels and studios coming into existence at this time. I am tryin to gauge what you are listening to. I have much vinyl from this era that held the most fertle underground music scene ever. I am just trying to get some perspective as to where you are coming from. There was a HUGE movement to lo-fi, LESS IS MORE recording in the indie rock scene. btw, 50s-60s jazz is very out there... kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 ---------------- On 12/1/2003 2:04:54 PM NOSValves wrote: I'm pretty sure he is talking used vinyl which runs from free to ? depending on its shape and rarity ! On average I pay about $2 a LP but have paid $25 for 180 grams before ! ---------------- Lol... thanks Craig... I should have guessed that it mostly applies to used classical/jazz... Seems to me that the supply and the variety in other styles must be running thin... ? I like the nostalgic feel but not the limitations of vinyl so haven't bought any in years esp at the $ premium. Teaches me for listening to what some refer to as "noise" ... after all there are as many styles of music as there are styles of people... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 "I like LPs because you can get them very cheap a lot of places." -Marvel Yes indeed. I have been hording thrift store records for decades. Often purchasing boxes at a time for as little as ten cents a piece. It has allowed me to eaves drop on the entire world of recorded music, learning about stuff I would never have been inclined to buy otherwise. This very process has made for an expansive appreciation of recorded music and the wide range of quality and engineering. Along the way I made many discoveries and finds that proved to be both enjoyable and valuable. It has also made me keenly aware of what I do not like, which surprisingly is a smaller category than what I will keep. I am kidding myself about all those near mint condition box set opera recordings, which I keep, but, confess, do not play very often, if at all. C&S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IB Slammin Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 ---------------- On 12/1/2003 2:16:06 AM formica wrote: ---------------- On 11/30/2003 6:30:40 PM Marvel wrote: For whoever posted about the 6x9 speakers. They weren't all that was used -- ever. VOTTs and Altecs with the coaxial 604E were the mainstay. Ad ub JBLs. Many of those studios DID use the speaers in a boom box, of some 6x9 auto speakers as well. Many used the little Auratones. ---------------- That's more of what I've heard and imagined... ---------------- formica, T'was me who posted. You are right. Many use great monitors...and many dont. I was just trying to address the vast difference in quality from one CD or LP to another. mdeneen, "The time that they used 6X9's".......is now. Regards, tc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 I've experienced superior playback in both formats. The fact of the matter is that +90% of what's out there has poor recording quality, regardless of the format. There are more important mechanisms at work such as the complexity (or simplicity) of the recording chain, microphone choice & placement, etc., as well as who is involved in the entire recording to production process. Some people are known for producing superior results more consistently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Totally agree with you, artto. And let's not forget that the sublimest of sublimities come from the emotional content the performing artist projects. One of the most moving recordings I played for Craig over the weekend was a downloaded mp3 made from a VHS tape off a TV broadcast. Of course it would have been much better if the sound quality were decent, but even so, the artists communicated their passion. If I were forced to make the choice, I'd take a bad recording of a good performance over a good recording of a bad performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 ever heard of nightwish? im really into them right now...i love the sound they've gotten with their drums and the bass guitar is so crisp i can't get enough. I also like the synthesized orchestral sounds combined with new-age metal. it's hard to say what music i listen to because I don't listen to any specific bands in particular and don't want to start listing genre's because that does no good. generally i listen to music with a lot of space, silence if you will, but it often gets crazy style loud. i guess you could say it's a combination of every style you can think of. i really enjoy rock opera (dunno if that's a genre) and a lot of new age stuff...the dynamic range uses both extremes of the CD. i just find that a lot of music that uses a lot of compression and distortion doesn't sound as crisp on LPs as it does on CDs. If I had to name another band, it'd be Celldweller. And no, i've never listened to a hardcore fully decked out LP dedicated 2 channel setup. However, I've listend to fully hardcore decked out 2 channel audio cassette systems , as well as reel to reel setups. both are analog mediums and i would assume a fully decked out LP would still have the similar analog sound? i have listened to average consumer grade LP setups with Beatles records mostly and I've compared them to CDs of the same songs and I can say I prefered the CD. I mean, i can totally see how some people prefer the LP and all that, but I don't see the future of audio remaining analog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IB Slammin Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 ---------------- On 12/1/2003 7:47:36 PM artto wrote: I've experienced superior playback in both formats. The fact of the matter is that +90% of what's out there has poor recording quality, regardless of the format. There are more important mechanisms at work such as the complexity (or simplicity) of the recording chain, microphone choice & placement, etc., as well as who is involved in the entire recording to production process. Some people are known for producing superior results more consistently. ---------------- artto, I agree. I tend to listen to great recordings. To take it a step farther, I listen to the better recorded cuts on a CD or LP. Rarely get through an entire CD. The down side, is that I miss a lot of great music. Regards, tc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 I can't believe I just lost a long freaking post!!! OK, once again. Dr. Who: Have you done an A/B comparison of vinyl to CD? I have, and can comment on the differences I head on my system. In general, the bass is much better on vinyl. I'm not sure if this is due to the medium or just my DVD/CD player. Rock: Not too much difference in what I have compared so far, mostly some Yes LPs and CD. Yet I do find a rather large difference between Alan Parson's Project I Robot on CD and vinyl. On the CD version, the vocals and the lead guitar is bright and up in volume more. This is most likely attributable to an eq boost, which we learned from earlier posts about this subject, were encouraged in the first years of CD production so people would perceive tha CD as being clearer. This is probably where people ended up perceiving the CD as harsh and bright. Jazz: I found the a large difference in the sound of acoustic instruments, like the piano. I find that on CD, it seems like the piano is missing some harminics, or overtones. It has a richer, fuller sound on vinyl, and I don't think that's a matter of eq. In Comparing Billy Cobham's Warning, which is a digital recording on both, vinyl and CD, there is even a richer sound to the electric guitar. The bass is deeper and more defined on the vinyl version. Classical: One of my favorite classical pieces which I have posted here before is Stravinsky's Firebird on Telarc. Boy, if you want to hear some emotion-packed dynamics, this is the recording to get! I hunted down the vinyl version on eBay and paid a whopping $28 for it. It is in exceptionally clean condition with almost no dust on it. Heck, I found an unopened Al DiMeola record and played it after all these years and right out of the sleeve it had dust and noise (maybe imperfections in the vinyl itself). This Firebird record is exceptional! Yet, in this case, I tend to play the CD because the quiet passages are so low in volume that you hear the needle riding the groove, and it is distracting. I need to do more A/B testing on this one though, to listen more for any possible differences in the richness of instruments. So far I have not noticed, but that's only one A/B session. From this limited listening experience I can conclude that you need to be careful when listening for differences that your recordings are not eq'ed differently, for then you are comparing apples to bannanas. I tend to think the bass difference is due probably to the player, because it's pretty consistant, except for the Firebird, where the bass seems to be equal on both. The difference in the sound of the acoustic instruments is where, IMHO, the difference lies between vinyl and CD. If SACD and DVDa come close, I will be glad to play those instead, assuming I can get all my favorite material on the new medium, which is doubtful. I can agree with some of what you said in that if I am listening to a band with several electric instruments and I have a choice of a recording made with 2 mikes or multiple mikes, I would prefer the multiple. Chances are the natural mix in this case would not be balanced well. If an instrument is missing or barely audible in the recording, you are not getting all the music. I would rather have a good sounding mix than a more "realistic" imaging at the expese of the mix. I have a King Crimson DVD of a live show in Japan and a Yes DVD live at the House of Blues. The Japanese audience is absolutely silent during the performance, holding their applause till the end of each piece. In the Yes DVD, some idiots are yelling and whistling, even during a quiet acoustic guitar part. Some events of live concerts are NOT part of the music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Andy, Where you been old buddy ?? Getting ready for your Busy run your butt off season I bet ! Good to see you here Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Hey Craigster! I've been popping (not intended as vinyl-speak) in and out of here and post when motivated by topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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