rtrott Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Well, I know that alot of people I have come across over the past 10 years or so have heard the same thing but I wanted to put it up for discussion here. My intentions are purely honest here, because I do not know the facts as I am a "classic" Klipsch man. I have heard that Paul Klipsch was born in Elkhart, Ind., in 1904 and he became enamored with audio as a boy after his mother moved the family phonograph into a corner and the sound improved. He was an engineer with patents in acoustics, ballistics and geophysics. Klipsch founded the company that bears his name in 1946. Klipsch created a corner, horn-loaded speaker design that is still in production. The sound moves from the speaker and uses the walls of the room to effectively extend the horn, creating a rich sound that can emulate an orchestral setting. At some point, Paul stepped down and a relative (Fred?) took over the company now located in Indianapolis. The rumor at that point developed and spread over time that the Klipsch product no longer retained the dedication to quality and sonic refinement that Paul Klipsch was dedicated to. In other words, they started cutting corners and putting out more of a product for the masses (read: Bose). My question is, of course: Is there any truth to this relatively widespread rumor? I am sure that everyone knows but just in case, Paul Klipsch died in Hope, AR in May 2002 at age 98. I can tell you that around the time Paul allegedly stepped down, the product did take on quite a different look and construction in which they did lose some of that sturdiness, refinement, etc. Hope I havent offended anyone, rtrott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IB Slammin Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Well..Ah...Oh....Bob Moores...Ah....Jubilee....well...I live in Arkansas.... Anyone? tc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvertip Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 There is a grain of truth to it. Their computer audio systems are cheaply made offshore and are notoriously unreliable. The RF series seems okay, but it's a two way design and the mids are produced by the cone woofer. That's not really a true Klipsch speaker in many people's books. The synergy series is so-so and the fact that Klipsch pushed them into places like BestBuy tells the whole story. The heritage series is next to impossible to find in any store in any state. Maybe this is actually an intentional move on Klipsch's behalf which'll pave the way for them to abandon that line all together and then shut down the Hope facility for good. That way they can concentrate on marketing cheaply made imported junk at moderate to high prices through large chain stores. Sounds kinda Bose-like to me, don't you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 B.etter O.ff S.omething E.lse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 The Reference 7 series of speakers are as good for their intended purpose (home theater) as any Klipsch product ever made, the K-horn excepted. The RSW-15 is clearly the best Klipsch sub ever produced. Velodyne had to modify their HGS-18 to the digital model to keep keep up a lead in subwoofers. There does seem to be a decline in quality due to the pressure to satisfy demand, i.e., Klipsch cannot produce the product fast enough to keep up with demand. Klipsch is still a leader in efficiency and bang for the buck. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Rtrott, Right on the money, absolutely true. Sorry Klipsch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 The unfortunate truth is that in order to make (lots 'o)money, you have to sell to the masses something that they want to buy. The cost of manufacturing in the U.S. lies mainly in the labor costs (and then materials) which for folded horns tends to be quite high, thus reducing the profitability of the product. I don't blame Klipsch per se, they are in business to make money, but they certainly are not mass producing general-level consumer products that compare in any way favorably with the Heritage series (in my opinion). But the commercial (theatre) products are still quite outstanding. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 '"That's right, Mrs. Presky, You've sold out!'" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 The idea that Fred Klipsch et al have diminished the Klipsch name is: PURE HORSES**T !! PWK was an audio engineer of the highest calibre and created products of the highest calibre but he was hopeless as a marketer by his own admission. He was however smart enough to eventually hire good help and by the time he sold out to Fred Klipsch he was already comfortably well off ( after many years of slim pickings ). Fred bought him out and then turned the company into a huge commercial success while maintaining the company's reputation as the creme de la creme within its area of operation. Many sniff at Klipsch these days because even the "Great Unwashed"sometimes have heard the name and thus the company has gained a degree of public recognition - largely on the basis of their computer speakers. Anyone can with a little effort produce examples of failed engineering - poor quality control - just plain dumb marketing - to smear any company with. That said PWK engineered a great product line and Fred Klipsch and his company have done a tremendous job of carrying it forward and bringing the company name into the mainstream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Well, if Billy Bob Thorton likes em, so do I! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 I don't think anyone is saying Fred is not a success. Of course he clearly outclassed PWK in marketing and sales. But the company took an about face to accomplish this. Rtrott seems to suggest that since Fred took over, the product has been cheapened. I think that's what he is saying. I agree that's what happened, among other things. I read around this forum at the many complaints about product defects and such. How many years do you think the reference series will be around? Do you think you'll be able to find many pairs of 20, 30, and 40 year old reference products? Let's not even discuss a 20 year old synergy product. Yeah, Klipsch makes lots of money. What a success Fred is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodj101 Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 I think the current reference line is excellent. the synergy line is very good for the price, and the promedia's are excellent other then the amp problems. they destroy anything as far as sound quality goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 What you say is literally true. But . . . It seems to me that times and the market change. Fortunately, much of the Heritage line is still sold by Klipsch, Inc. Competing units of the time by EV, Altec, Jensen, and JBL are not. In some ways we're better off than fans of those manufacturers. So there is no reason to throw stones at Klipsch, Inc. Much of the success of Klipsch was PWK himself without a doubt. He wanted to do things his way, and had no one to answer to. PR, technical staff, management of the factory, etc. must have been mostly PWK himself. Fortunately he was that rare individual who could do it all. Raw intellect and personality carried the day. Some small businesses work like that. The times were different too. Those were the golden days of hi fi and my guess is that he keyed into and exploited the post war spending habits of people who knew what they wanted. It was Klipsch. They were never, in my recall, real consumer items. A lot of things changed in the 1970s. The choices of how the baby boomers could spend money were vast. Maybe it was just that there was more to spend money on and thus every individual item had a smaller budget. Those were the good old days by some standards. Speakers were made of intricately crafted plywood and cast metal parts. Few want to pay for the raw materials these days. Few want to pay the wages of craftsmen, which are probably higher by any adjustment. Overall I think you have to look at the manufacturing and consumer world as a whole. Nothing is remotely the same compared to the '50s and '60s. How many people have a real piano, wear good clothes to work, have real plaster walls and shake cedar roofs. Probably fewer than ever by any ratio. It is a bit unfair to expect that Klipsch or any other manufacturer would continue unchanged. We have not. I have to laugh. You look at pictures of Michigan Avenue in earlier days. Every guy had a suit, tie and hat. Every gal had a dress, gloves, and a hat. Now, at least in summer, people are walking around in what would be considered underwear and sneakers. The upside is that they have more electronics than George Jetson had. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtrott Posted December 12, 2003 Author Share Posted December 12, 2003 Some very good and knowledgeable replies here. Again, my intention was not to project any opinion either way on the newer Klipsch products -- just to discuss the rumor. I appreciate the responses. I think this is a very interesting topic and I hope others do as well. rtrott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoriated_Tiger Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Wow. Let's see. I got a pair of SF2's. Not the greatest, but certainly quite good. I could be running Kappas, or JBLs, or any number of speakers, but I chose the SF2 'cause it does the job on the cheap. Now I have Fortes. I can't play 'em yet They're sick. Klipsch still makes the little part that will make them better. For $17.95. Try calling Infinity for a tweeter for a Kappa. I lurk about this forum. I read things. I think we'll see quite a lot of good stuff come from Klipsch in the years to come, PWK or no PWK. I think they're still hell bent for good sound. They also have to pay bills and make profit. Any company that still supports a speaker as old as the Forte is cool in my book. Don't ever stop doing that, folks. Support the old ones still in use. Pretty please =o) These old ones are like a fine wine, or a fine vintage car. PWK's speakers will always be special. I'm sure 50 years down the road some of K's current and future models will be classics as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 "But the company took an about face to accomplish this" I repeat : HORSE**** ! There was no about face because none was required. The present management has dropped one model from the Heritage line for whatever reason and has concentrated their efforts on promoting additional lines. The Heritage line never was and never will be a major force in the market other than as a benchmark. That was acceptable when Klipsch was a small company. Enough speakers could be sold at a high enough margin to keep the company solvent. In a way the very success of the Heritage line forced the company into a position where the company needed to contract into a niche where it could survive only by becoming ever more exclusive ( and therefore gimmicky ) and expensive or by widening its name recognition by trading on its well deserved reputation for ultimate quality while expanding its range of products. The expanded line as far as I can see still carries forth the philosophy that Klipsch speakers will be the best of their type for every type of application. Every company states the above mantra at the drop of a hat but frankly I rarely see/hear a product that competes with Klipsch where Klipsch is not the best of show or very nearly so. Love them or despise them -> The Klipsch 2.1 Computer Speakers were as ( If not more ) significant in acquainting the mass market with Klipsch than the mighty Khorn. Many consumers who had heretofore never heard of Klipsch developed a desire for more having bought the 2.1s and their successors. There are people on this forum whose introduction to Klipsch home audio products is a direct result of auditioning the Klipsch computer speaker line. There is no such thing as a speaker or amplifier that is perfect for every person in every circumstance and therefore there are always opportunities for Kvetching. That said Klipsch has not diluted or prostituted its product line in expanding it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBusa Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 the promedia speaker line were completely outsourced to China where they were cheaply made. When they started failing klipsch couldn't imagine why!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_highlander Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 that's why they are labeled the LoudMedia...with subpar quality, they are indeed LOUD... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 ---------------- On 12/12/2003 7:57:58 PM silvertip wrote: There is a grain of truth to it. Their computer audio systems are cheaply made offshore and are notoriously unreliable. The RF series seems okay, but it's a two way design and the mids are produced by the cone woofer. That's not really a true Klipsch speaker in many people's books. The synergy series is so-so and the fact that Klipsch pushed them into places like BestBuy tells the whole story. The heritage series is next to impossible to find in any store in any state. Maybe this is actually an intentional move on Klipsch's behalf which'll pave the way for them to abandon that line all together and then shut down the Hope facility for good. That way they can concentrate on marketing cheaply made imported junk at moderate to high prices through large chain stores. Sounds kinda Bose-like to me, don't you think? ---------------- I picked this post out as an example of one of several people here that don't know $hit! If its got Klipsch on the label its a true Klipsch product, like it or not. Have you heard ALL of the Synergy speakers? Check this site for stocking Heritage dealers. I did that just yesterday. There is one in my state. How many pair do you own? And how long do any of you scholars think Klipsch would stay in business if they only sold Heritage? The products that Klipsch markets are those that are in demand. IOW, what people will buy. The so-called cheap Synergy's is what floats the boat. I heard some Klipschorns today. WOW! Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 To save lots of typing,Klipsch still makes speaks than can outperform most in their price range,I've tried em',I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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