NOSValves Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 ---------------- On 1/6/2004 11:47:10 PM 3dzapper wrote: "Give us a day or two -- we all love shopping for other people." Dean, you're too much!LMAO Rick ---------------- I think we should assign Guy the head shoppers job. I'm always amazed with how many links of gear he finds for people. Always really interesting pieces also ! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Delaflor Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 HornPenguin Why not BOTH? I have an Hybrid Integrated, it have separated circuits for a tube preamplifier and a ss amp. The best of both worlds if you ask me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Dean-- "Solid state is so tight and fast the notes are over before you've had a chance to enjoy them" What??!!?? Are you serious? Listen to yourself. You are turning into a screwball audiophile my friend. I play a Fender Jazz Bass theough a SS Ampeg and can kill or sustain notes as I please, just thought you'd like to know that lots of guys use SS to MAKE bass, oughta be good enough to reproduce it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny dB Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Manuel, Unfortunately, the MA-230 is a SS preamp with tube power section. Yikes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Tom, that is NOT the same as listening to recordings through a stereo system. The damping factor on tube amps is lower, and since they are voltage driven -- the bass notes are definitely drawn out a little longer. The notes aren't as snappy tight, and there is a fullness to them that makes the bass have more presence, and seems to load the room better. Hell, I don't know -- I'm only going by experience here. I only know that every tube amp I've had in here has bass that engulfs me, as opposed to sounding a little thin. The AE-35 DJH for example, absolutely smoked the Bryston 3B-ST in the bass "realism" department. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Dean---Here's a fella making bass with tubes, Sunn. Name that bassplayer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Looks like a sorry pic of Noel Redding from here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 And HE didn't need tubes OR solid state! http://www.jazzhall.org/images/jblanton.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornPenguin Posted January 10, 2004 Author Share Posted January 10, 2004 Ok, I've been doing a lot of reading I am now %99 sure that I'm going for tube power, either mono blocks or stereo amp. Furthermore I think it's going to be VTL. Now it's just a matter of finding the amps. There are some VTL Compact 100 Mono's on eBay. Any opionions? It seems that I can re-tube them for a reasonable (relatively speaking) price. - Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 Just be a bit careful with some of the VTL. To be honest, the older models dont always have the best track record repair-wise. While they were a big time player in the 80s they did have some reliability problems . When you think, Dennis Had of Cary Audio fame really got his start back up in the tube audio amp world by fixing the broken VTL gear at our local hi-fi shop, you have to wonder a bit. I have had a few VTL pieces cycle in and I liked some of their gear. Their VTL Ultimate was an early favorite and the Super Deluxe was not bad. Their amps could sound nice when firing on all cylinders. But you might look at later VTL when the reliability creeped up if in the amp game. And even then, I am not sure that would be my first choice for a tube amp. Still, ALl tube designs share far more similarities than not. But I might suggest not confining yourself to VTL. Some interesting stuff starting to filter into Audiogon. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 ---------------- On 1/10/2004 1:43:45 AM mobile homeless wrote: Just be a bit careful with some of the VTL. To be honest, the older models dont always have the best track record repair-wise. While they were a big time player in the 80s they did have some reliability problems . When you think, Dennis Had of Cary Audio fame really got his start back up in the tube audio amp world by fixing the broken VTL gear at our local hi-fi shop, you have to wonder a bit. I have had a few VTL pieces cycle in and I liked some of their gear. Their VTL Ultimate was an early favorite and the Super Deluxe was not bad. Their amps could sound nice when firing on all cylinders. But you might look at later VTL when the reliability creeped up if in the amp game. And even then, I am not sure that would be my first choice for a tube amp. Still, ALl tube designs share far more similarities than not. But I might suggest not confining yourself to VTL. Some interesting stuff starting to filter into Audiogon. kh ---------------- Mobile, What is VTL? Can you explain it to me please? Thank you, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 VTL- Vacuum Tube Logic http://www.vtl.com/, used to be owned/managed by David Manley (who used to design the gear as well) and now owned by his son Luke. In 1992 David left VTL in favor of Manley Labs http://www.manleylabs.com/ . He left it too and it is now managed by his ex-wife EvaAnna Manley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 Dean, I have only heard ASL Wave8s in my current system. Eight watts was *plenty*. When it was cold, they sounded competent, but unremarkable. Over the course of several hours (5 to 8), they sounded fuzzier and less distinct. If I left to system playing and came back after a couple of hours they were often annoying due to the "fuzziness". I swapped in new tubes and that didn't make any difference. I was never able to get hooked up with my friendly Boutique owner to try a Conrad Johnson he had before he moved his business to Florida. I can't express my disappointment with this situation. I picked the 8s due to the praises on the Audio Asylum. I WANTED them to sound great and was planning to buy 5 for the whole HT. It would have been SO COOL to have a tube HT. I actually did a dance the day the amps arrived! The good part is that I sold them to a guy in Taiwan for what I had in them. That's ironic because the amps were made in China, shipped to Canada, then to me and finally to him. They were made just a few hundred miles from him, but likely he could not buy them directly and they must have been shipped 15,000 miles in their life! I'm actually going back into tubes, though. I've sent the check for a vintage Heathkit mono integrated to be used with a single Shorthorn and (EEK!) a CD player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 John, you are obviously free to your own opinion, yet you might consider the weight of the statement, "I'm not a tube fan" when you heard perhaps THE cheapest, made-to-a-price-point new tube amp manufactured - these little monoblocks cost LESS than the average mediocre AV receiver at Best Buy. I surely would not say, "I dont like solid state" after hearing the equivalent in that camp. To be honest, I have heard many a tube amp that is exactly the opposite of what you experienced, coming into its own after a few hours on and sounding anything but fuzzy and indistinct. My current reference amplifier is actually the most naturally detailed I have owned or had in my system, this including some heavy hitter solid state (I went through quite a lot of SS over the years). Although the WAVE 8 are a great little experiment for the price point, and bring NEWLY contructed tube amps totally into everyman area, I dont think them indicative of tube amp performance in general. It's a bit like someone hearing a mediocre, made to price point horn speaker and stating, "I am not a horn fan." Perhaps a more apt statement might be, "I am not a Wave 8 Mono fan." Dont give up yet. Perhaps the Heathkit will rekindle some interest in experimenting down the line. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 KH: This does not pertain to John's situation, but I'm glad to see those old Moondogs still in your signature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 Yep, they are still there.... for now...heh. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 Right now is all there is...at the moment...which seems to hold its breath. edit: sounds unintentionally like ee cummings...the guy who wrote and composed mostly in lower case. What a great poem he wrote: "A leaf.......falling.........loneliness." (I think that's pretty close, anyway) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornPenguin Posted January 11, 2004 Author Share Posted January 11, 2004 Mobile - What type of reliability problems do you refer? I have read some postings about high plate voltage requiring careful selection of tubes, otherwise they may have an short life. Do these problems afflict the VTL compact 100? What is your take on the ARC VT50? Cary? - Brad (aka Horn Penguin) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 When I replied to Dean, I figured I'd be in for a roasting. Though I *wanted* to be, I was not a tube fan well before I bought the Wave8s. Many praise them saying they sound better than tube amps costing thousands. There is ample scientific evidence that tube circuits perform better than similar SS circuits; see IEEE Magazine. I'm well aware of the price of the Wave8s and had there been a hint of anything beyond competence, I expected them to be stepping stones to better equipment. Still hate missing that C-J. However, all of the things tube fans say their amps do to or for a music reproduction system are things I don't want. Liquid and softer are not adjectives I want applied to my system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 I think those adjectives are more in the context of when compared to mediocre solid state (budget receivers), or high power amps using bipolar transistors. I think you're like me, and will find the most satisfaction by choosing a tube amp running EL-34's or KT-88's in Penotde or Ultra-linear. Since you are running subs with your LaScalas, you don't have to worry about the low damping factor of tube amps, and instead can just enjoy what they do best with horns -- provide a midrange and treble nearly free from transistor hash and grain. 40 to 60 watts from a good Ultra-linear amp is very cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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