mobile homeless Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 The Type A can be constructed using the parts from the AA and a better inductor. The ALK costs five times as much. The Type A is extremely simple. At the least, if you have an AA, you can modify it into a Type A and test for yourself (this using the same parts). Purchase better inductor, and youre all the way there. http://www.progressive-engineering.com/klipsch/aa_alk_a.jpg You can build an ALK as well or purchase. There is a lot of baiting going on and the only people really out for others make it obvious in every post with bait, cryptic comments, and hidden agendas. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Al does NOT make serious "jingle" off of his crossovers. If you total up the cost of the parts, the time it takes to build them, AND the time he spends working with his customer -- it's peanuts. If you used Solen's throughout, then I'm not surprised they were unlistenable. Those things are the harshest, nastiest sounding caps I've heard. I won't even use them in "non-critical" positions. Kelly -- it's really not an "accuracy" thing per se. When I said "non-flat" response I was being diplomatic. Some movement of the frequency response is fine with me, but I don't think I could live with a peaky and resonance laden response. That's just a little too "lively" more my taste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 "I'd rather use a good electrolytic." -- Mike Sanders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Solen does make a version that is not metalized - see it on the Angela and Partsconnexion site. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 ---------------- On 1/21/2004 3:09:22 AM Tom Mobley wrote: ALKs = $500 Klipsch cost on their AA = ~$25, maybe less. ALKs didn't exist during the time these speakers were being built, that probably entered into it too. ---------------- Thanks for the simple explanation Tom. Non techies like myself really appreciate that. What can one expect to obtain by changing the crossover? That is what is rather confusing to me. Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Greg, If you wish, I can convert these AA networks into type A, free of charge. You can also DIY and if you need help, I can guide you over the phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 ---------------- On 1/21/2004 10:31:56 AM DeanG wrote: "I'd rather use a good electrolytic." -- Mike Sanders ---------------- Solens was what arrived in my ultra 4a PREAMP. Boy was it a turd slipped in the trusty auricaps and some russian film and foils the difference was amazing. i have no clue how solen could of made there caps any worse kelly what is up with the baiting statements although you won't get a arguement from me but not in this thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 I'll chime in here. I just sent a note off to Greg outlining my opinion of the ALK before discovering this thread. A lot has transpired between Greg and Jeff while I was sleeping or commuting, so I'm trying to catch up. My 1976 KCBR's had the push-botton squawker that occasionally was prone to "honking" at 9K. Luck of the draw, I guess. Still, the stock AA sounded pretty nice but sometimes lacked some of the smoothness in the midrange that I like. Even after 100+ hours of burn-in, my KT88 SuperAmp still sounded overly bright in the midrange and I felt that a change was in order. I had had some experience with Al's crossovers. I used them to replace the highly revered B-series on my old Cornwalls. I A/B'ed them, taking advantage of Al's offer on that point. I found them to be a bit smoother in the midrange, and more extended somehow on the lower end. I think Allan Songer had some similar feelings as I discovered later. I also used one of Al's crossovers on my center channel Belle. While this was discretionary for sure, I did it simply for consistency. So when it came time to look at new crossovers for the Klipschorn, I gave Al a call and a few weeks later they were installed. Once again, I found the midrange to be much smoother, less edgey, and the 3-way sounding more like a 2-way. Now that I have Doug's Klipschorns in my living room, and my KCBR's with ALK's in the basement, I've had the opportunity to listen to the stock AA's quite a bit. They sound very good, but still more forward in the mids than I would prefer. I've not heard the "A's", but it sounds like they wouldn't have fixed the 9KHz problem without designing in the P-trap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 ---------------- On 1/21/2004 10:38:36 AM Piranha wrote: ---------------- On 1/21/2004 3:09:22 AM Tom Mobley wrote: ALKs = $500 Klipsch cost on their AA = ~$25, maybe less. ALKs didn't exist during the time these speakers were being built, that probably entered into it too. ---------------- Thanks for the simple explanation Tom. Non techies like myself really appreciate that. What can one expect to obtain by changing the crossover. That is what is rather confusing to me. Thanks, ---------------- If it were just a matter of cost PWK would have just put an atteuator pot instead of the autoformer. I think it was more the limitations of the time. These networks, The A and AA were designed by a man with a slide rule, not a super computer and using the best sounding components of the era. Each component of a Klipsch speaker was individually tested using the most expensive resource availiable to a manufacturer, human labor. PWK did not like the idea of users messing with the sound of his babies and so refused to use L pads. The Alk was designed and tweaked with modern CAD and network computer programs in an attempt to create wonderful sound and a constant load on the amp. Al is now in the final stages and beta testing of a new network for Khorns which refines his ideas further. If Al makes a little pin money from his endeavors, more power to him! But, it is not his primary source of income. He does this for recreation and curiosity as much as anything else. Are ALKs for everyone? No. But the ability to adjust the attenuation of the squaker to fit ones ears and room while providing the same constant load on the amp is an improvement most who hear it like. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Al built a pair of ALK's for me and I was amazed at the improvement of my Scalas with ALK's over the original AA's. Now, one thing I'm not quite comprehending is that the improvement of ALK over AA is not (to my ears) as dramatic in Khorns as Scalas. In another thread, there was some conversation about this and I understand that contrast is due to the more complex folded horn in the Khorn yields less upper range sound from the woofer. With Scala, the listener hears more high end woofer response. There is another forum member who is building a pair of Type A crossovers for me and at some point may have more to post on the question, but for now am mostly curious and clueless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 PWK did not like the idea of users messing with the sound of his babies and so refused to use L pads. -------------------------- I've mostly assumed that this was true, however, I was looking at a pic of an old crossover posted on this forum, which looked all original, and also looked like it had some level control for the squawker and tweeter. I'm thinking it was an old AA crossover. ] Did anybody else see this, or could help me with what I think I was looking at. Sorry not to know the particular location of the pic on the forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painful Reality Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Crossoverless full range drivers have their advantages... No need to argue about which crossover is the best! I guess the best way to find wich one is the best is to try them all. Going from the AA to the A seems rather easy. Building an Alk doesn't look like a monstrous project either. In fact, if I'm lucky I already have some of the required Solen inductors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Jeff, if you'd like, borrow mine and audition them. I can leave them with Greg when I visit him in Maine in a few weeks. If you like them, build a pair. If not, go with Plan B or C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted January 21, 2004 Author Share Posted January 21, 2004 Paul, I wish I had the time, really. I will, hopefully soon. Even taking the time right now to do this is difficult. Besides, I don't understand a lot of what is talked about in those threads. I'm one of those people that know just enough technical stuff to be dangerous. Kelly, you know Jeff and his musical tastes, what do YOU think he would like in his Khorns? Switch type AA to A with new inductor, or ALK's, or something else? Cost is really not an issue here. If switching from AA to A with new inductor, what about the age of the other parts in the AA's? Wouldn't new ALK's be a better choice? Or rebuild the whole thing to an A. I don't know, I'm trying to think of Jeff here. I myself might like to have several choices, try them all, and then sell the ones I don't like. That would be my style. But for Jeff? Guy, what a generous offer, thank you. Chris, I had a long talk with Jeff on the phone last night, really nice guy, and my wife and I are really looking forward to a trip up North in a couple of months. Been a while since we've been to old Quebec. Only 3 hours from me. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudret Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Congrats Jeff, I am really happy for you. I will have to make another trip to QC to listen to them. It will have to be in spring though (after that horrible trip last weekend). Greg, I am glad they found a good home and I am sure they will look stunning after you are done with them. Kudret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 ---------------- On 1/21/2004 11:57:34 AM greg928s4 wrote: Chris, I had a long talk with Jeff on the phone last night, really nice guy, and my wife and I are really looking forward to a trip up North in a couple of months. Been a while since we've been to old Quebec. Only 3 hours from me. Greg ---------------- Beware the phone bill to Canada. AT&T whacked me for $1/minute on my first call until I got smart. New phone plans have Canada plans ... or dial 10-10-321 or something and get it for $0.05 a minute. Carrie and I are hoping to head up to Quebec City in May ourselves. Our earlier plans fell victim to life in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painful Reality Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 ---------------- On 1/21/2004 11:57:34 AM greg928s4 wrote: I myself might like to have several choices, try them all, and then sell the ones I don't like. That would be my style. But for Jeff? Greg ---------------- After having built around 40 different amplifier circuit, I can say I am a proponent of the "I'll see by myself" route. I will definitively try all of them. Chris this kind offer is definitively considered with much interest! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Greg, If you are not going to upgrade the parts in your Type AA, the ALK is about the best you are going to get. The biggest difference between the two is the tweeter circuit. Al's networks have a dB or 2 less loss in the tweeter end so they sound a bit hotter. They are cleaner, too. The change in sound may be what Randy dislikes about them. Remember everybody hears things differently because of our genetics. I may like a system you hate even though we hear it together. Where do you live? Maybe somebody can help you do an audition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 ---------------- On 1/21/2004 12:14:28 PM Chris Robinson wrote: ---------------- On 1/21/2004 11:57:34 AM greg928s4 wrote: Chris, I had a long talk with Jeff on the phone last night, really nice guy, and my wife and I are really looking forward to a trip up North in a couple of months. Been a while since we've been to old Quebec. Only 3 hours from me. Greg ---------------- Beware the phone bill to Canada. AT&T whacked me for $1/minute on my first call until I got smart. New phone plans have Canada plans ... or dial 10-10-321 or something and get it for $0.05 a minute. Carrie and I are hoping to head up to Quebec City in May ourselves. Our earlier plans fell victim to life in general. ---------------- Chris and everyone else you need to change phone companies I just changed to Talk America . I now have unlimited long distance to Canada and the USA for $62 a month including my local phone service all taxes the works this is exactly what the complete bill is ! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 IT's really a no lose situation. Jeff can surely do the work himself here and test. Regarding the CW, I have talked with Allan quite a few times on the Xover issue. He actually admitted using the Type B xovers more often than not telling me he liked both but found himself preferring the Type B lately. This was more than a few months back however. He offered the ALKs to me for audition and at the time, I thought Al was sending me a pair to review. Al stopped making this xover due to cost and nothing ever happened. I still want to hear the ALK for CW. They do change the impedance to 4 ohms, however. On the Khorn issue, as I said, this is a no lose situation. IT it were me, I would WANT to hear the STOCK Type AA first, with NO mods. I personally wouldnt want Greg to do anything. It would be a good base to start from. Get a handle on the sound and then move to the VERY simple mod over to the Type A. You might buy the two inductors and make a NICE Type A. As stated, you could almost everything from the AA. In my opinion, I would probably end up with the Type A but I dont know for sure. I sure like the simple Type B in my CW too. Ultimately, and since Jeff DOES have the work bench, I think he will want to build something similar to the ALKS just so "see". This would not be hard at all for him to make and he has a nice parts box. Jeff and I have much of the same taste in sonics and a lot of the same taste in music. WE usually agree on sound more often than not. In his shoes, I would want to hear stock AA, Type A, and possibly the ALK for comparison. Building any and all of the above would not be too hard (besides the expense of the ALK). I do know that after living with NO CROSSOVER for the last few years, it's going to be an adjustment. As I stated in another thread, the Lamhorns are VERY fast and direct soundings speakers, possibly much faster in some ways than the Khorns. But he will be gaining some GREAT things with the Khorns that I think might be MIA with the LAmhorns. Some of these things I found with my CW in comparison to the Lamhorns. kh ps- Greg, I posted a load of chassis over in that Monster Thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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