Dylanl Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 Anyone ever perform this mod. with good results? I got the idea from this link: http://www.aca.gr/paper15.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 Don't dampen the woofer basket on K-33 woofers, they might rust! Or are you talking about damping them? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylanl Posted February 22, 2004 Author Share Posted February 22, 2004 Damping. Did you look at the link? This fellow says he heard good results. I also looked at the archives and found that you Hbuilder did this mod. please let me know your findings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 No...I didn't do this mod, since I have no K-horns. Actually, I think that damping the woofer basket is a waste of time and effort. It would be better IMHO to just look upstream from the K-horns to solve a problem like that...too many folks blame problems on the speakers, without wanting to admit they screwed up in upstream component choices! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylanl Posted February 22, 2004 Author Share Posted February 22, 2004 My mistake I thought it was you, maybe it was Dean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 Dean had Cornwalls, and put rope caulk or whatever on his woofer baskets. If that stamped steel basket EV woofer is so prone to ringing or whatever, then why was it put in Klipsch speakers? You think you'll hear a difference? I have a pair of FR Norelco 12's, the baskets on the things are thin stamped steel baskets. And they ring pretty bad. I put clay on the back of the baskets, and the front, tapping and placing clay until the ringing went away. They still sound the same. Doesn't hurt to try however, YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 Man, how many times do I have to say this -- IT'S NOT BECAUSE THEY RING. It's because the baskets are stamped, and vibrate like hell. Energy lost through vibration is ENERGY LOST. You want the energy moving through the speaker into the listening area, not leaking into the cabinet and adding more vibration to a box that's prone to resonating to begin with because of inadequate bracing. Because of the way the K-33 is mounted in the Klipschorn, coupled with the added rigidity of the interior design, and the horn loading -- I don't think the damping tweak will do much of anything. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylanl Posted February 22, 2004 Author Share Posted February 22, 2004 Dean, Do you wrap the back of the woofer just like the horn. I fully understand what you are saying and it makes sense to me. I would like to try and see for myself. I also noticed that others mentioned bracing is that worthwhile? Has anyone posted pictures? Thanks for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 Man, how many times do I have to say this -- IT'S NOT BECAUSE THEY RING. It's because the baskets are stamped, and vibrate like hell. Energy lost through vibration is ENERGY LOST. You want the energy moving through the speaker into the listening area, not leaking into the cabinet and adding more vibration to a box that's prone to resonating to begin with because of inadequate bracing. Oh wah. Could ya tell the difference? Why wouldn't this remark not apply to a stamped steel basket in Khorn Bass bin? Wouldn't still there be energy lost through a vibrating steel basket in the bass bin as well? IMO, I would try to brace the cab on a Cornwall before wasting time putting putty all over a woofer basket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Good one! Damping the woofer basket of a K33 in a Khorn is probably the most anal bit of tweaking that I have ever heard of... but I am not saying that I am against doing it! I haven't heard a dampened one vs. an undampened one, so I have nothing to judge by, but facts won't stop me from having an opinion anyway. Whereas the build quality of the modern K33E is far less than I would really like, they do have a particular quality in the sound that they produce that I cannot find in other drivers I have tried... I cannot really describe it, but as close as I can get would be a "natural transparency" to the sound. For my part, I think that there are other area's more deserving of tweaking that would give far more "return" for the effort expended... but don't let my opinion "dampen" your enthusiasm! DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylanl Posted February 25, 2004 Author Share Posted February 25, 2004 Sometimes I wonder why I ask. I must be a jack*** or maybe just a little anal. Never had Khorns before ( only in audio for 1 year ) but trying to learn. I will be more judicious in my questions next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Dylanl, Frank Vanalsteen recommends damping not only the woofer basket but the entire inside of the dog house to dampen spurious resonances. I haven't done it yet but I plan to. I ordered a bunch of damping asphalt from Parts Express earlier today to try one at least. I have another mod in mind that I "discussed" with my wife tonight. She thinks that I am a little on the far side of the edge but, she humors me. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Dean---Trouble with your thinking is that damping the basket doesn't prevent the loss of energy you think is bad, it just damps it. The energy is still lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 ---------------- On 2/26/2004 12:31:44 AM 3dzapper wrote: Dylanl, Frank Vanalsteen recommends damping not only the woofer basket but the entire inside of the dog house to dampen spurious resonances. Rick ---------------- I used Marigo anti-resonance "dots" to damp my K-horn bass bin, placing them by a combo of Marigo's recommendations and trial-and-error. Problem is, it was possible to damp the bass bin too much and make the bass dull-sounding. I suggest caution in where and how much you use damping that you can't remove easily. The benefit was small in any case. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCM Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 "Dean---Trouble with your thinking is that damping the basket doesn't prevent the loss of energy you think is bad, it just damps it. The energy is still lost." Exactly, just converts it to heat if I understand things correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Tom is right- induced vibration is energy forever lost. The problem doesn't lie so much in dampening the vibrations, as in isolating the vibrations so they do not lead to resonances in the woofer basket and enclosure. Metal to metal contact is bad, metal to wood contact lessens reasonant propogation(although still present), and metal to plactic to metal contact will "short out" over 95% of reasonant propogation in metal components. You don't want to go overboard and use soft poly washers or soft nylock, because you stand to lose even more good signal due to an ineffective mechanical attachment. It would be akin to hooking up at the start line in a 1/4 mile with sand strewn about. Too mushy. Use the hardest, or second hardest, available at good nuts/bolts suppliers. The mid horn has a sound short at the "L" mounting bracket at the rear driver location. Poly washers installed here were successful in reducing mechanical vibration by the desired 95%, measured. I'm not too worried about tweeter reasonances, and it's a PIA to get in there without a pressing need to do such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Im still wearing my hip boots & rain coat. The bullsh!t flying around this forum the last couple of weeks is amaizing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Hey, I'm not calling anybody who does this mod "anal" only that I thought it was a little on the "excessive" (or even obsessive) side of things that could or should be tweaked. Please do not think that I am making fun of anyone for asking questions. That is how we all learn things... Perhaps I worded it wrong, it was not meant to be insulting in any way. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Some people say that dampening plastic horns is worthless too, but after covering one of K-85-Ks with one layer of rope caulk and doing A-B tests I can attest to the clear benefits. That being said, I'm not convinced the same mod will do as much for woofers. All the same, I will probably put a few strips of rope caulk on my woofer baskets next time I have my KG5.5s apart. It is so cheap and easily reversible -- I cannot see any reason not to try it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 "Trouble with your thinking is that damping the basket doesn't prevent the loss of energy you think is bad, it just damps it. The energy is still lost." So it's still vibrating just as much as it was before the damping was applied? Well that sucks. So, maybe some placebo effect going on then. I thought I heard a difference, but I suppose it's possible I didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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