Second System: The new Rage - Sub $80 Digital

[Champagne taste beer budget]

Just a bump for Colin.

I suscribed to this thread for future referance, planning on getting the Toshiba once we get all the tv's in the house set up, still working on furniture and unpacking.

[n2dablue]

Hello All, figured I'd share:

I have had my Pioneer DV-563A for 6 months now. I picked it up from Circuit City for $109 open box, added the protection plan and walked out for like $134. I have nothing but good things to say about this unit, which has been put through its paces for 2-3 hours nearly every day. With this unit being as reliable as it has, I chuckle when I think that the protection plan doesn't run out until mid 2007! The transport is quiet, and you cannot hear it at all during playback. SACDs sound very good, and Redbook sounds good as well, though I still prefer my inexpesive outboard DAC. While I do not have a progressive scan TV, I can see no issues with DVD playback, it looks great. I took it in once to have the firmware upgraded. (Pioneeer initally had a problem with a couple of DVD-A s not playing which has since been fixed) I dropped off the unit, had lunch across the street and picked it up an hour later, so it wasn't a big deal.

While not as inexpensive as these new sub-$80 boxes, I still say the 563A is worth every penny and more. I will be holding onto this unit for quite a while, as I have read that there is a lot to be gained by upgrading capacitors in the analog output stage and power supply ( if i choose to void the warranty ). In short, its perfect for my budget setup.

Paul Larson

Pioneer DV-563a

Entech Number Cruncher 203.2

Dennon DRA-835R

Klipsch KG-4s ('90)

[psg]

Too bad it's no longer on the markey. I'm told the replacement Pioneer is not as good. I'm still without a DVD-A/SACD player...

Am I missing out to the point where I should run out and buy one?

I do think DVD-V concerts are very good (e.g Diana Krall Live in Paris).

[n2dablue]

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On 11/2/2004 10:23:21 PM psg wrote:

I'm told the replacement Pioneer is not as good.

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That is also my understanding. I cant remember the model of the 563A's replacement (could it be the DV-578 or something?) but it does some type of internal DSD-to-PCM downsampling, which in my opinion, kinda takes the "SA" from SACD, dont ya think?

BTW, new 563's can still be found on EBay, if thats your thing.

[Champagne taste beer budget]

Just an FYI...

We received a gift card to Best Buy for Christmas, just like we'd ask'd for.

Just got off the phone with em, after a PATI automatic answering service, but good news... They have the 3960 in stock and currently on rebate which brings it down to $59.90. Gotta like it when the item you were going to buy anyway is on sale! Anyone that's been waiting to get one for whatever reason, time to quit waiting.

[mike stehr]

A post from a Joenet cat:

"Purchased a couple of my favorite $50.00 cd players the Toshiba SD-3960

At fry's last week to do some mods on Got them home and pop the cover to

find they have changed the audio Board! The Toshiba chip is now replaced

with a Zoran processor Hmm any one messed with these new boards yet?

Still sound good but not as good as the older boards."

[Parrot]

Now that's interesting, Mike. I remember the seemingly crazy theory was going around when these first came out that the audio quality must have been a mistake, because why would a company sell something this cheap that would sound better than so many expensive units? Or why not bill it as an audiophile unit and charge $500 for it. I don't think Toshiba sells plain CD players, but I may be wrong.

Anyway, Mother Parrot bought one tonight as her first DVD player and didn't know if she'd know how to hook it up. She asked the clerk what the store would charge to come out to connect it, and he told her $100. Luckily she passed on that, and I talked her through it over the telephone.

[mike stehr]

""Now that's interesting, Mike. I remember the seemingly crazy theory was going around when these first came out that the audio quality must have been a mistake, because why would a company sell something this cheap that would sound better than so many expensive units? Or why not bill it as an audiophile unit and charge $500 for it. I don't think Toshiba sells plain CD players, but I may be wrong.""

Maybe they are more concerned with the video circuits of a DVD player, and the CD audio analog circuits are compromised and made more simple. And every once in awhile, the circuit is either simple enough with right combination of parts to make a good sound. I dunno.....

At any rate, they'll probably be raving about some other cheep DVD player soon enough.....

The higher sampling rates of DVD players with respect to CD analog audio always seem to sound good to me.

[cyclonecj]

This sounds very familiar to me .... Back a few years ago, there was a very popular computer video card maker that was releasing a hot card for the first few months, then changing the video chip to a cheaper one after the reviews came out. I remember it because when customers called in for drivers, we always had to see the card to identify it, since the part numbers were all the same, but there could be any number of chips on it.

[Champagne taste beer budget]

Interesting twist on the saga of the cheap combo player. Can you get any more info on the claimed differances between the new and older models of the Toshiba? I was at a store in a small town a couple hundred miles from me over the Christmas holiday, they still had the 3950 in stock, I passed on it since it was the old model, but if it's got better circuitry in it than the 3960, I could get someone to go in and pick one up for me.

[Parrot]

Some people say the 3960 has better bass. But the 3950 is built slightly better.

But keep in mind, although lots of people love these players, other people think they are awful.

The most negative review I have seen, a very funny one, is by a guy who specializes in modding SACD players:

...Let me see how I can put this in writing!? Please dont get me wrong! I am not trying to change your point of view, take the fun away or anything like that. I just feel like this is a place where HONEST opinions can be heard and appreciated by many. So, no hard feelings please!

After all the RAVES about the Toshibas on this forum, Alex Peychev (me) decided to visit the local Best Buy, get a 3950 and hear for him self.

I rushed home and plugged in the new "killer". I had two audiophile friends over, mom, and my brother (whose hearing is superb, he can also play piano and guitar pretty decent). So, we connected the Toshiba with great expectations to be just floored.

Oh boy, let me try to describe how it sounds. It has no detail, it's rolled off, artificial, dead, what else its horrible

So, according to your great ears, something that sounds without top end and detail is REALLY GOOD? Oh, I see, some may hear a vinyl resemblance. It should be those budget vinyl setups though. Sure, you can't hear the so called "digital glare" just because the damn thing DOES NOT HAVE top end, nor detail. It is really mellow and it sounds like I have thrown a thick blanket over my speakers. No instrument even comes close to sound realistic, not to talk about voices and overall presentation. Sure, it makes bright and harsh recordings sound decent, is this what you call Audiophile sound quality?

I have at least 15 Audiophiles coming to my place tomorrow, so I hope it becomes clear who is deaf and who is crazy.

The only thing I can agree is that one can have a lot of fun playing with a cheapo project as 3950 is. And BTW, the 3960 is even worse piece of junk with all plastic enclosure and even cheaper LED display. Dont even get me started on its transport, power supply and DSP.

I don't know what to tell you guys! WAKE UP!!! No this is wrong; If you like it and youre happy with it, JUST KEEP IT!

Of course, no one wants you to read this, if you don't like it! Even more, just forget about the M after my name!!! I am talking as an ordinary Audiophile. I have no complaints nor fear that the 3950 (or the worse junk 3960) can be of any sort of competition with my products (regardless of the mods done to it). After all, if I had pure commercial intentions, I would actually TAKE ADVANTAGE of the Toshiba. If you dont get it, I am just trying to justify my honest opinion here.

Why I am writing all this, there's no point, really...;-)

[D0N]

I don't use my 3960 anymore. The damn thing doesn't have an optical output so it wouldn't recognize or play movies in 5.1 digital sound.

How can a newer DVD player NOT have an optical output?

I wouldn't recommend the 3960 to anyone. If you want a $59 dvd player then be forewarned... you're getting what you pay for.

[Colin]

Great thread, how did I miss it, especially when I asked something like this question before Christmas? By the way, the venerable Stereophile magazine mentioned the Toshiba in the issue this month while reviewing a much more expensive unit and really liked it for the price!

[126mhz]

Man, I love you guys! I went through this thread and drove over to Best Buy and found a Toshiba 3960, (24/192 sampling) and it was priced at 69.95, went to the register and bought it for 49.95!

I figured even if it was a pile of crap how could a guy go wrong at 49.95!?

I can't believe anyone says anything bad about this little player. No matter what one says about this little player you MUST follow it up with the fact that it costs 49.95!

I have loved my Rega Planet, mind it's a bit past it's prime, but this little 50.00 player makes my Rega sound cheap. Now I can only hope that the manufactures will take heed and put together a decent 24/192 that will come in under $500.00

I'm going over to Best Buy and pick up another one. My La Scalas never sounded so good!

Thanks guys,

Bill Woodward

[SilverSport]

Late to the party this time...so what's the latest...is the 3950 gone and is the 3960 better or at least as good??? I realize for the price it can't be bad but my Yamaha CD player has given up the ghost and I need to replace it anyway...(door opens when IT wants to and skips all over the place while playing...and I only got 13 years out of it... )

Bill

[mike stehr]

I have a Panasonic RP-56 I bought and never really used.

I blew the dust off it and have been using it for the last week.

The Toshiba 3950 does sound rolled-off compared to that Panasonic. The RP-56 has a analog subwoofer out, and I kinda like that as opposed to a Y splitter on one side.

And it seems to have more gain.

Ya, the Rega Planet is pretty much a vintage player by today's standards, but I'm still gonna tweak on mine.

I already replaced the diodes with Hexfreds, dunno about better sound, but it sure perked up as far as transport operation and how the player cues up.

Mabbe I'll hit the Percy site for some boutique 'lytics......

[SilverSport]

...so...you people that have bought the Toshiba 3960...are you as happy as you thought you would be (though most the raves were of the 3950)...I realize this is a $49 dollar DVD player but since my Yamaha just crapped out...I thought this might be a nice cheap alternative to waiting without a CD player while I buy everything else...wheeeeewwww!!!!

Bill

[Griffinator]

What you guys have to understand is that the "newer" version is more aptly titled the "cheaper" version. There's a drive to the bottom on sub-$100 DVD players - a race to see who can cut the most corners, who can find the cheapest parts, to get their DVD players cost-competitive with the no-name brands and still make a profit.

Obviously, Toshiba axed the optical output on the 3960 because why? Everyone else in that price category goes without an optical out. The SPDIF coaxial spec is a much less expensive implementation of digital out, saving them at least a dollar or two per unit by eliminating the electrical-to-light energy conversion circuitry.

The other thing that someone mentioned off-the-cuff ("my Yamaha only lasted 13 years") is that modern cheap DVD players are only good for 18-24 months. If you bought a sub-$100 DVD player in 2001 and it's still running, you're a lucky, lucky individual. Cheap DVD players are built just like cheap VCR's - just enough to make them work out of the box, with a warranty that reflects the build quality - usually 90 days labor, and if you're lucky 1 year parts.

Better to invest in a solidly constructed unit if you intend to keep it. Of course, the peeps on this forum are all about gear swapping, so maybe buying cheap disposable DVD players is the way for them to go. The general public, while irritated by this phenomenon, are used to it, and so grudgingly accept it.

[Colin]

I want my cheapo DVD player to last until HD DVDs come along!

[Audio Flynn]

GRIFF;

I always inferred these were throw away items.

My Panasonic RP-91 has DVD -A ; no CHroma bug and flawless perfromance in almost 3 years of service. Sounds pretty good for CDs but not the best realism for cymbals (my favorite digital test).

Cost: $ 450

Cost of hassles: $ 0.00