mobile homeless Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 I figured this deserved its own thread as there are a lot of broke audio loons about with eyes bigger then thy pocketbook. Well, if you are willing to sacrifice aesthetics and name appeal, along with ulitmate build quality, here is the latest solution circling the forums. Digital on the ULTRA CHEAP, as in BELOW $80 category. Now there is no reason not to fire up that closet-bound Fisher/EICO/Pilot/Scott/BEll tube integrated, when you have some digital that is UGLY but oh so cheap for the taking. And this stuff is amazing in that it wont burn a hole in your head like even some not so distant high dollar solutions. Yep, there are a host of forums all hot and bothered about a few DIRT CHEAP DVD options in the $50-70 range. Strange but true as some of these beasts are getting some thumbs up for the ducats and more. I can attest that I heard a Wal-Mart special Pioneer DV-260 do as much with $70 as anything I have ever heard. State of the Art? Again, no way. But these latest dumps from the Wal-Mart/Best Buy/Target rounds have come a long way as a third tier backup for digital, and for $50-70, you can afford ye olde second tube system in thy guest bedroom! Add these three to the least of office system/backup/bargain100 choices just to consider - at the price, they make fine gifts for the unsuspecting. Would I pay 100 for any? Nope. But you will not believe what you CAN get for peanuts. Each of these does a credible job with their take on the 24/192 DAC solutiuon. I had just sampled a handful of low cost options for some installations past December and came away less than raving. It appears I picked the wrong crop - these EL CHEAPO options are worth the chump change: **Toshiba SD-3950 = whopping $49 *Philips DVD-727 = Target for $80 Pioneer DV-260 = Wal-Mart for $70 Reference system? Nope. But man, I was suprised as hell what CAN be done for peanuts here. The Toshiba is getting big buzz, pointed out to me by ole TAddeo. Believe it or not, one fiend actually ditched his AudioNote DAC 3 for this dumper. SOUND? I sat in real suprise when I heard what appeared to be nice detail and VERY smooth on top of that. The ultimate bottom end was a bit MIA along with a bit of the richness of better options, but lord, this was sounding WAAAAAY better than it should have. I had to call Audrey in to prove I hadnt lost my skull cap. Here we have true poor man's digital that wont have you running for the volume. I admit, it does better on better recordings. Feed it more subpar software, and some problems exist. But damn, I was surprised to say the least with what it did for acoustic instruments. Now anyone can have a dirt cheap spare bedroom system with a tube integrated with grins, and all for less than one of those horrid RACK SYSTEMS you see at Sears-A-Tron. When they break, just pass them on to the little tike wanting to take apart the new "Clock Radio" of the year 2004. kh ps- Some of these can be ordered online with free shipping too. btw, I hate Wal-Mart like sin...but some things can be endured. Better yet, send a helper for the duty, preferably at 3am when it's interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Damn, I wonder what interconnects I should use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted March 2, 2004 Author Share Posted March 2, 2004 Scoff if you want... but I hooked up my MIT Terminator 5 and Transparent Plus to this beast and a helpin' handful it was. I hated these two solutions via my Planet. But they worked wonders via this Disposable Unit. The IC cost 10 times the player! But hey, they were boxed up like a wedding gift from an inlaw, ready for using. I realize this post would bring naysayers. Believe me, I would have been one too. But for $50, this is actually amazing for a valid second/third system option. How did I hear it? My wife's sister gave this junk to us for Christmas as a DVD player. I TRIED TO TAKE IT BACK without even opening it and Wal-Mart REFUSED except to UPGRADE. I was pissed. I returned home grumbling...sullen....as bitter as a Parrot! But when I popped it in via the EICO, I was flabbergasted. If only it didnt look like plastic fantastic. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkBK Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Which unit are you using? Does it play DVD-A with analog outs or is that too much to expect for $50.00 MarkBK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 I've trotted a bunch of that type of stuff through my various peripheral systems. (Some might even point out the Sony in my Khorn system.) I've found most of it usable. Reference? Certainly not, not acceptable for critical listening at any level. But background, BBQ or beer-drinking use? Why not? For $8 at a pawn shop or $50 at your local Wal-Trough, it works for me. Some of the older stuff does require a bit of treble knob jockeying, but that's just good exercise! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted March 2, 2004 Author Share Posted March 2, 2004 Yeah, but this is more than your old second system digital. Seriously. The Toshiba unit is getting serious buzz now. I didnt believe it either till I started looking it up too. I have hated cheap digital with a passion. About the only thing I could tolerate was a 1 Bit MASH portable that was a bit soft sounding but at least musical enough for cheap. These latest crop of junkers like the Toshiba/Philips 727 etc are actually sounding BETTER than GOOD DIGITAL just a handful of years ago. AGain, I heard a crop of lowcost solutions this Christmas and was not impressed. This is BETTER than background music. This is WAY better. I am not talking BBQ and Beer fodder. This is actually NOT BAD. IF in a different box, and behind a curtain, there would be some serious head scratching going on. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Add the Panasonic from Target, the model I don't recall. $79.00 I believe, it's doing stand in duty over my Pioneer DV-05 that is a bit ill at the moment. Tell you the truth I'm not missing it much Audio & video wise. I to was amazed for the money, have in mind to move it to a bedroom system once I determine what to do for a reference DVD player. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch RF7 Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 What do you guys think of the Pioneer DV-563A? it seems to get excellent reviews and Ultimate Electronics has them for $149, it plays DVD-A, SACD and DVD video, I just need it for a cheap DVD audio player to add to my setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch RF7 Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Well I went out and bought the Pioneer DV-563A from Ultimate this afternoon, they had it for $149 and I told them I can get it online for $110 shipped so they sold it to me for $110 plus tax Its a nice player and sounds really good!! Very warm and smooth sounding with my Queen DVD Audio and my Audio Experience preamp just came in as well, ordered it last week and it got to me in a week from Hong Kong and my Mark 3 amps are coming in Thursday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 I can attest that the Pioneer DVD-414 player makes a decent transport. It was my standard player before before my Rega Planet. The unit was recognized as being excellent for the price and responded very very well to mods. http://www.stereotimes.com/trans122601.shtm From what I recall, the player had great detail but didn't have the musicality of the Rega. I did have a chance to test the DVD-414 against an Arcam and I could not tell them apart! - tb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 ---------------- On 3/2/2004 9:35:54 PM Georg F. Handel wrote: Well I went out and bought the Pioneer DV-563A from Ultimate this afternoon, they had it for $149 and I told them I can get it online for $110 shipped so they sold it to me for $110 plus tax Its a nice player and sounds really good!! Very warm and smooth sounding with my Queen DVD Audio ---------------- Good deal. You saw the modding info I posted in the "Need CD player as a start to upgrade old home stereo" thread? That would cost you in the neighborhood of $550 more. I guess there's not much point since you're happy already. Are you using this to play video as well? I read in the NYTimes about a batch of classic classical performances, filmed in black and white, that are out on DVD by EMI Classics. Mostly from TV performances from the 1940s through the 1960s. Sounds like some fantastic stuff. I've got to find the one with Stravinsky at 83 conducting the Firebird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch RF7 Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 ---------------- On 3/2/2004 10:23:36 PM paulparrot wrote: Good deal. You saw the modding info I posted in the "Need CD player as a start to upgrade old home stereo" thread? That would cost you in the neighborhood of $550 more. I guess there's not much point since you're happy already. Are you using this to play video as well? I read in the NYTimes about a batch of classic classical performances, filmed in black and white, that are out on DVD by EMI Classics. Mostly from TV performances from the 1940s through the 1960s. Sounds like some fantastic stuff. I've got to find the one with Stravinsky at 83 conducting the Firebird. ---------------- Paul, Yes, I saw the ad for modding it and I might consider it. The player is dirt cheap and is a huge bank for your buck, now I have a DVD Audio player as well The sound and picture is nice and I have the picture hooked up via composite now so im not even getting full progressive picture quality till my 7' component cable i ordered comes in hopefully this weekend. Id love to check out those EMI Classic DVD's, they would be a very nice addition to my music collection and would sound superb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 kelly, where can I find the Toshiba SD-3950 for $49? I will buy one tomorrow! regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 Best Buy offers this currently for $59 (click above), possibly the best price available with a 30-day return policy. So much for the power of internet suggestion, Kelly and Jeff will vouch I was aiming to debunk the myth after picking one up yesterday. Right out of the box I was impressed with the balance of detail and completeness of the sound. The only thing it falls short on is the inner most detail that the Sony SCD-777ES brings out. Sonically there is an open, natural quality with the Toshiba that gets better and bigger as the volume is turned up. The soul of the music shines through with this player, its nature is not overly digital or analytical, so many cdps fall short in this regard. Amazing what it does for $60. My guess it will go toe to toe with any cdp costing $600 to $1000. A watershed achievment. See following for Toshiba 3950 - under the hood Given the weakest link may be the output stage, I decided to hook it to a previously-retired Musical Fidelity X10-D output buffer stage. The results have been very nice, a full, engaging sound, potent bottom end, the soundstage is cavernous. Sonically at this point it surpasses the Tjoeb99 IMO, and although the 777 has a bit more refinement and less congestion, I dare say the Toshiba has me now wondering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 Interesting stuff. The link review expresses concern about the cheap transport and that some have died quickly. Were your first paragraph comments without the Musical Fidelity buffer? Or did you need that to get the extraordinary results? Interestingly, at amazon.com, some people give it 5 stars, some people 1. There are some serious quality control concerns, with some not working right out of the box. People either love it (if it works), or get one that is defective. Amazon has it for $50 after the $20 rebate, with free shipping. But for the $9 extra, BestBuy makes a lot more sense because that way if you get a lemon you can take it right back. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000BV0XV/ref%3Dnosim/bestcardcom-20/104-3241260-6761559 I guess you have to ask yourself, "Am I feeling lucky today?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 Kind of a bummer. I was all ready to try one of these, but don't know after reading about all these lemons. If it were simply a matter of it being bad out of the box, and you could return it and get a good one, that would be fine. But I wonder about whether the thing would hold up 3 months, 6 months, whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted March 3, 2004 Author Share Posted March 3, 2004 As I said, I was really impressed with what a few of these sub $80 players were doing with so little. A few tips for the curious (and at $50-70, you can afford to be), put the player on a good stand and place something of sufficient mass on top. These chassis' are VERY VERY thin and cheap. The Planet seems like a fortress compared to these tikes. I actually placed my Rega Planet on TOP of the player and it worked great for a test in the main system. Second, use some good internconnects. All the wire skeptics can bypass this but for those that have done some experimenting here, you know. Yeah, the player is El-Cheapo, but it DOES reward the use of some nice interconnects. As stated above, I got great results with MIT and Transparent, as well as the DIYCable Superlatives. The only wire I did try that I DIDNT like (besides the supplied IC) were the AudioQuest I use for my tuner. This sounded too bright to me but that is a quality of a lot of the AQ low end wire. Again, anyone with some OLD digital that is subpar and has been saving for something of quality with long range plans, these little decks can be a godsend for the time being. The Toshiba from your local Best Buy seems the deal to avoid the headache of getting stuck with a faulty unit, surely worth the $10 surcharge. And they will do fine for DVD work. Again, while not the BEST, these do so much for so damn little, it's the kind of thing in audio that brings a smile to your face. There's nothing like doing it on the cheap! kh ps- I wouldnt buy this from Amazon. Perhaps the handling does it in. Also, dont discount the other two - Philips 727 at Target (Amazon ships this for free and I know of a few that were happy with this player from there) and the little Pioneer DV-260. All seem to be sitting on a shelf a few miles from 80% of the current population. It's a scary thought. I almost feel like bringing one in to our local hifi salon, this with the EICO. IT would be worth the trouble to see the looks on their faces. 40 Year old glowing dump with Wal-Mart tinsel box, laden with MP3 stickers. heh... They would lock the doors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 Were your first paragraph comments without the Musical Fidelity buffer? Or did you need that to get the extraordinary results? First paragraph was before inserting output stage, soundstage is wide and deep by itself, the MF buffer just makes a good thing better. Flat out amazing at $60. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 This ol' pig wouldn't have made it a month with leaving the cover on. The regulators will burn up the transport. Replaced about 18 capacitors, with increased values. Pretty scary with the clay. In my lame opinion, this thing hangs right with a Rega Planet. But little hotter on top end. Until I am more flush, and can mod the Rega Planet. The Rega is so simple, tweaking will be easy. I've had the Samsung 709 for at least 3 years. At the price of the said units posted, I may have to try one of those as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 ---------------- On 3/3/2004 10:56:02 PM Are Friends Electric wrote: First paragraph was before inserting output stage, soundstage is wide and deep by itself, the MF buffer just makes a good thing better. Flat out amazing at $60. ---------------- I may just give this one a shot then tomorrow or soon. The Philips reviews at amazon.com also had a fair number of defectives right out of the box. I read a post by Jon Risch on the Pioneer; he said decent sound, great picture. So the Toshiba seems like at least as good or better to experiment with as the others, and cheapest too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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