Mr. P Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 Nice write up. I am glad to see that Jim Hunter is still making himself useful. There is still quite a lot to be learned about the dynamics of the throat of a Horn!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 Somebody here posted the same question about some '60-ish Khorns that DID INDEED have the same throat inclusions as you described. He included a drawing in his thread. The forum member concensus has it that they were included as some sort of a test at the time for a new woofer or something. No definitive answers from KlipschCO on it. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorjen Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 Wow, great stuff Larry. Glad you finally achieved what you were looking for. I will have to take a look see inside my '67's for these blocks, after I pick them up on Sunday of course. Fini...I used to love Clutch when I was a kid, what was the dogs name, "paddle foot"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 Yeah! And the kid was Skipper! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 That sure looks like a Scott amp sitting on the shelf behind PWK and the clear KHorn... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted March 18, 2004 Author Share Posted March 18, 2004 ---------------- On 3/17/2004 4:21:12 PM Tom Mobley wrote: ...After I first got them set up I got out one of the Stereophile test CD's and tried it, seemed like the response died off between 40 and 50Hz.... ---------------- Tom, While I don't have measuring equipment, I've used certain recordings to get a qualitative handle on deep bass from my K-horns. The Bach Passacaglia in C minor for organ heads right down to a low 32.7-Hz "C" within seconds of opening, and the Saint-Saens "Organ" symphony reaches low 34-Hz D-flats in the slow movement. There may be a problem if you can't hear and feel those low tones. These were very weak on my K-horns before the inserts were removed, but are nice and strong now. According to those factory notes, the inserts were used between 1961 and 1963. It would be interesting if yours had them, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 I'll find out, but it will have ro wait until my next string of days off, early next week. Meanwhile, I'll look around for those recordings. What labels were they on? SOmething I could find at Amazon? Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Larry, I echo Q-man's words, your elegantly depicted saga in words and photos have opened my eyes and the re-thinking probably saved my ears from disappointment of timbre-matching six Khorns of various vintages. Once again, the shades and nuances within a fully horn-loaded enclosure are given the respect and concern they so richly deserve... a place where the much used term "awesome" truly fits. Your workman-like approach was not marred by bringing in a pro to "whack, smack pry & tease" out the offending blocks. May you enjoy your new found "ear-fortune" for 20 more years... and then some! Your story and perseverance are indeed amazing... as is the support that you received from Klipsch... particularly Ernie (who signed my copy of PWK's biography... in addition to Miss Valerie, the authors). HornEd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 When taking out the removeable motor board & mounting directly to chamber motor board. You have slightly increased the back chamber volume. This probably changed woofer EMF slightly. It might not be measureable. But could be audible as better defenition. To make measurements you need some thing better than a rat shack meter & stereophile test cd. You also need to disconnect mid & tweet if you do a sweep test for rattles . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted March 18, 2004 Author Share Posted March 18, 2004 ---------------- On 3/18/2004 7:36:48 AM Tom Mobley wrote: I'll look around for those recordings. What labels were they on? Something I could find at Amazon? Tom ---------------- Tom, Many recordings of the organ works; I have a favorite oldie on Columbia, Bach Great Organ Favorites by E. Power Biggs, CBS MK 42644. The Passacaglia is on track 13. Others might chime in with their favorites. A long-standing, spirited favorite of the Saint-Saens is also an oldie but has good deep organ pedal: Boston Sym under Charles Munch, RCA 09026-61500-2. The slow movement starts on track 2. The last movement (track 4) also has the organ, which goes to the 32.7 C at the ending. Hope this helps. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylanl Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Larry, did this mod only take place between the years of 61-63? Could this mod. be found in any other years that Klipschorns were made? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted March 23, 2004 Author Share Posted March 23, 2004 All I know is what I was told (in 1994), that some statement in Klipsch files said this was a change in 1961-1963. Perhaps more details are available from Klipsch. Barring that, I suspect the only way to know is to go into the bass bin, take out the woofer, and look. My pics should help you determine it right away. Removing the woofer in K-horns of that vintage requires removing the wingnuts and angle iron from the side nearest the bin opening, loosening the wingnuts considerably on the far side, pulling the board away from the motorboard, and sliding it out. I did find, though, that the weather-stripping sealing the mounting board to the motorboard was deteriorated and gummy, so you may need to have new stripping handy to remount the board. Hope this helps. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 Bump, and I saw this at the time, and knew my then single vintage Khorn had the removable motarboard. Now that I have two vintage Ks with this 'mod', this thread is even more timely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktate Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 Do the newer and brand new ones use the removable motor board my, 74s have the board.Should all of us who have the removable motor board think about removing it and screw woofer directly???I also think everyone should do air tightness test of woofer air chamber its not hard to test>Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktate Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 Has anyone else done this mod?Looks easy enough to do i would like to do this if its worth the effort i am kinda worried about putting screw holes in my motor board, i guess i could fill them up if i didnt like the mod.Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 looking a the inserts...and drawing on some assumptions made from reviewing cab designs....my take is that you probally are correct to expect a change in the lower end as you discribe because the mod has the characteristics of phase plug which appears to be targeted to extending the upper portion of the bass area. extending the upper range of the k-horn has been the subject of a lot of intrest. as in any mod, there is a trade off...if you leave the mod in...perhaps it improves the upper bass and lower mid-bass area....if you take it out...lower bass response improves...but upper bass region/lower-mid bass returns to the pre-mod state. on the subject of mod's to the k-horn bassbin that is now-destructive, and reversable.....check out this link http://www.speakerbuilding.com/content/1032/ the link has some response graphs that goes into more detail about the trade off betweem improving the low end bass response at the expense of reducing the mid-bass region's presence. let me know if I need to clarify any of my comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/thread/545205.aspx The above gets you to an article on the slot. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 intresting..before seeing the graph, I posted a comment in another thread about the clear midbass in a 6X13 opening as opposed to a 3X13 one. was happy to see the improved 250HZ plot on the 6X13 graph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted September 16, 2012 Author Share Posted September 16, 2012 http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/thread/545205.aspx The above gets you to an article on the slot. Gil From D-Man in 2005: "Remember: If it isn't a K33E, the slot should be wider!"Maybe that's why the vintage EV 15WKs didn't sound good in my 1962 3" slot K-horns when I tried them back then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 The narrower slot has less deep bass, more midrange in the 400hz area. It's not a big difference, but remember that at levels around 90dB at 40hz the lines of equal loudness are only about 3dB apart, so it can sound almost twice as loud (where as in the midrange the lines are about 10dB apart). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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