TBrennan Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Dubai said in explaining the poor sound of AVs "Granted, amplification was ss," Granted? What, you take it for granted that any SS amps are bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 ---------------- On 4/8/2004 12:46:12 AM dubai2000 wrote: Of course everybody listens differently, but when I had a chance to audition those Avantgardes, they sounded......like crap. Granted, amplification was ss, but they were simply shrill and no bass to speak of.....but perhaps the sub wasn't adjusted properly. Wolfram ---------------- I've heared them with tubes and they still sounded like crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arj Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 vinylfreak, my friend, wrong forum to post this...if you had only ended your post with "but I still preferred by Khorns" you would have been loved here !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktate Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Those plastic pieces of dog doodoo sound better than a 165 pound K-Horn,,,,i dont think so...give me a break...Maybe if he didnt seal the K-Horns to the corner...on second thought i bet the K-Horns could beat them standing in the middle of the room hooked to a sony walkman,,,lol.....wude rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Tom, no, I don't, but you need the right speakers for ss amps...and I admit that with my Klipsch I simply prefer tube amps . Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Wolfram, God only knows what you heard. I have heard many of the Avantegard speakers (Solo, Uno and Duo) and regard them as excellent speakers. The funny thing is that if I had to choose between them it would be the Solo I would go for. Aside from the aircraft engine looks (which would be a little problematic in my living room) this point source idea really worked when I got to hear it. The Duo's (which I admittedly heard over 2 years ago) are wondrous things. I am not sure I would really compare them to the KHorn as their sound is rather different. Better? Depends on what you want. I dont think that they are any nearer to perfect than the Khorn, they just have different problems. For soundstage depth they kill the Khorn. For bass I found they lost out and the image size is definitely smaller (whether or not you regard that as a good thing or a bad thing is an entirely personal matter). The integration of the woofer didnt work all that well to these ears. I found I could spot the crossover point each and every time we passes it. I understand that Avantegard have since changed the unit to get around that problem - but I havent heard the newer models so I cant comment. The Solo has none of these problems, it is also powered. This would mean that I could drive them from the pre-amp directly and that has an appeal all of its own, but I could see it being a drawback too. I haveto say I find the orginal post both a little confusing and rather difficult to believe. I have taken my speakers to audition an amp before but we are talking Heresies here and not KHorns!! Be it as it may I have no trouble believing someone could prefer Duos over Khorns, and even switching. Hell, Tony went from Khorns to Quad 989's - anything is possible.... Comparing the sound of the system's friends own one lesson of life rings true. Different people hear different things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Time is short, I have to get to work this AM, but I must say a few things before I leave. I started listening to Klipschorns when I was around 12 years old. Bought my first pair of LaScalas around 1973, My first pair of Klipschorns when I became a member on this forum. Then another pair about a year later. I was one of those who believed that nothing was better then the Klipschorn. Most of you know about my mods and the new top sections and networks. My different midrange and tweeters also make the stock Klipschorn sound dull and like a transistor radio. You heard me say that the stock Klipschorn now sounds like I have pillows stuffed into the mid. horn and tweeter. I had to hear it or I wouldn't have believed it. I don't doubt that the Avantegarde has better sounding midrange drivers, horns and tweeters. I still use the bass horn and I say that I will never consider not using the bass horn. Then again one should never say never, as I proved to myself when I changed the top section. I would like the compare my Klipschorns to the Avantgardes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 "Nectar----There is nothing secret or even unique about the technology used in Klipsch speakers, indeed some argue that the Klipsch use of horn technology is inferior to other implementations." No argument there. But I will say this: No one got more out of the parts used than PWK did in his designs....which is truly an accomplishment. A classic case of the whole being greater than the sum of the parts. "Several other outfits have made speakers with performence at least equal to that of big Klipsches and such used speakers are as affordable as used Klipsches." Before I wrote my original post, I certainly considered the Altec/JBL - and having read your prior posts, have come to know more about them. Ever since I heard an old college buddy's '68 JBL's, I've wanted a pair:) But in terms of price, JBL is no longer "apples to apples" it seems - especially in the big stuff. Vintage Altec/JBL stuff is getting very expensive, and difficult to obtain. I mean seriously, $2500 for a pair of C61/S7's??? And that's one of the few pair like it I've seen for sale anywhere near me. Given the market for used JBL stuff, it seems we are now comparing an apple to an apple and a half....although they may have sold for similar prices when produced. Even the L100 has gotten more expensive of late. "I think certain Klipsches are great speakers and I own them myself but I'm not about to kid myself about their nature." And that nature is certainly well documented here.....they can be downright offensive in the wrong environment or with bad electronics, and certainly have issues (look at the tweaking on the forum). I look at the klipsch (as well as other speakers) as acoustic tools - used improperly, one will get less than desireable results. Use 'em right and they work well. That's part of the beauty of them too - they CAN be made to sound better. No, they aren't perfect......but for they money one can get them for, and the ease of obtaining them, the Heritage still, in my book, is the best speaker deal on the planet. Even now, after 3 years of playing and enjoying Klipschland, I don't regret my speaker choices. Do I wish I had others (JBL C50 or 60's, anyone??) - sure! Even my wife likes how they look:) But I enjoy my current klipsch immensely, and have no plans to part with the current lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleve Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 hah, the Duo's are horns... Not for every decor, either. http://www.avantgarde-usa.com/duo.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Don't y'all think the chair in the photo shows the sweet spot to be awfully shallow? And I would make darn sure it was a real fireplace in the van, if I were to photograph $20,000 speakers High school English tutors still run about $20 an hour for tutoring sessions, which helped me immeasurably with written passages and the ability to implement paragraph breaks. Then again, if I just spent twenty large and didn't get a set of canary yellow or fire engine red horns for the in-your-face fashion statement, my hands would be shaking so bad I wouldn't be able to set paragraphs either Are you going to sell your Khorns, vinyl? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBryan Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 To nit-pick, the AGs are hybrids - not true horns. They have a chambered driver attached to a horn (resulting in more efficiency - among other things). I've heard them on several occassions and I tend to agree with Max in that they come across as fairly discreet - I could hear what each driver was doing. There was a lack of coherence and the subs sounded like a completely different system. I'd imagine that in the right room (read - BIG) this wouldn't be quite as noticeable and the AGs have developed quite a following even with their high cost of admission. I have no doubt that many folks would prefer the AGs over Klipschorns, Altecs, JBLs, etc. The AGs are more efficient, less sensitive/finicky with upstream gear, much quieter, have a larger frequency range and are pretty much turn-key out of the box, meaning there aren't any mods for them other than changing out the wires - and that's personal preference. Besides, they look cool as hell and you don't need to jam them in corners to get decent bass. Most folks who can afford these puppies probably have a good size room for them and prefer the sub's deep bass. For the purists, these speaks are quite compromised and present problems with coherence and imaging. Of course, all speakers are compromised in some way and to some listeners, the AG offers better solutions to their needs than any offerings from Klipsch, Altec, JBL, etc. I have no doubt that this gentleman and many others would prefer the AGs but I can't afford them and in my system, the Khorns sound like a much better deal - compromised as it is. The best speaker out there is the one that sounds best in your system - no matter the price. I hope that one day, I will find a speaker that wows me enough to put the Khorns out to pasture. Until then, I'll play around and tweek the Khorns to my heart's content. I have been to the shows and heard many of the offerings available in high efficiency speakers and IMO, Khorns offer much to appreciate and are one of the best values out there. Have fun -Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleve Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Here's photos of various owner installations - some of its kind of interesting - especially the 'dining room' placement. http://www.avantgarde-usa.com/installations.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 He carted 167 pound loudspeakers over to the dealers! Wont it be easier to bring the Advantgarde horns to his house? Maybe he is calling a smaller Heritage version his Khorns, NOT the large classic Klipsch corner Khorns? Moving up to the Advantgarde horns from Khorns sounds like going from a used American sedan to a new Lexus sports coupe, very nice, but pricey as hell. Some people simply equate price with quality. Hard to believe, but if something cost more, they assume it is better and can NOT simply believe their own ears or do their own research to find out the truth. They dont care either. They are proud to spend the money. I know, I have friends like that. The expensive car is simply better, the huge super amplifier is better, etc. The Advantgarde installations are beautiful! People with money have such wonderful homes! Where is all their junk? My classic Klipsch corner Khorns are ten times better than what they cost, the beautiful Advantgarde horns cost ten times more than they sound. Perhaps the large mid-range horn is responsible for the better sound. I notice that radical mods to the Khorn sometimes include a larger JBL mid-range horn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhawk92 Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 If he loves the Duo's so much, I want to see his ad for selling his Klipschorns! I bet there are a number of folks here that would take those off his hands in a flash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 JBryan---AVs are quieter than Khorns? Quieter?!? What in the Sam Hill are you talkin' about? Dynamic speakers don't make noise, they reproduce it. No dynamic speaker is quieter than another. Both speakers at issue are of the dynamic type. Or are you talking distortion and saying noise? In which case I'd expect that little car-audioish bandpass box of the DUO is a much higher distortion device than the K's basshorn. And a MUCH more dynamically limited device. AVs are horns for "audiophiles"; they're aimed and marketed at effete conventional audiophiles who are prejudiced against horns. Their campaign has been clever and evidently worked for them. But the true horny knows the best comes from Southern California, Arkansas, Michigan and Oklahoma. I'll buy German if I'm looking for a machine gun or a torpedo. Or insecticide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 What do you bet he is a sales rep for Avantgarde? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdc Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 If he's a salesrep for them... I'd like to have him let me audition them in my home for a few months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Everybody has a right to his own opinion on speakers. I've heard Avantgarde before and was distinctly unimpressed. They'd make good conversation pieces though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackBurner Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Hmmmmmmmmmm !!!!!!!! No one going to jump in with a ceiling fan comment this time ?? Where's ARTTO ?? and the rest of the linch mob. Is'nt it in good old klipsch tradition to send him the yellow button or belittle his comments till he's to embarrased to respond or are we selective of who we dump on around here . The klipschorn is not the be all to end all of speakers for " EVERY TYPE " of person or listening pleasure , but i would have posted those comments on a different BB instead of insighting another flame war in this forum. Anyone who's been " LURKING " should have known better unless that was there intent from the start . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 I think some of you are being a little hard on him. It makes me wonder if I should stop posting my stuff on this Forum. After all I don't use the Klipschorn tops on some of my Klipschorns any longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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