Shock-Late Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 While I may understand why a direct radiator could sound better than a horn loaded driver, i must say i find that a little sad... efficiency put aside, an all-hornloaded speaker should IMHO stay an all-hornloaded speaker. For the beauty of it... but your website is great and i'd kill for one of your tweeter and stand assembly. especially the grey one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 The single biggest problem with the K400/K55 with regards to sound quality is the SQUEEZE. The area of the diaphragm is 10X the throat area of the driver to boost efficency, and the throat area is only 5/8". A 2" throat driver has over 10X the area that a 5/8" throat does. At any given volume the pressure per square unit of throat area is thus 1/10th that of the smaller throat. Distortion is directly proportional to the presure per square unit area. Not all 2" drivers are equal. Most still have a 10:1 internal compression ratio. They still will sound better than the K55 because of the larger throat. BUT The Community Light and Sound M200 2" throat driver only has a 2:1 compression ratio. It sounds efortless on a K400 in the Klipschorn. A JBL 2328 throat adaptor is need to mate up with the modified K400. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 Great Dennis! You didn't say how much that M200 is. They list for $325 don't they? Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Yeah, list is $325 each. http://www.northernsound.net/Sales/speakers/frame.html If you call, the price is $227.50 each Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elso Kwak Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Hi DJK, I downloaded the datasheet of the community M200 at ftp://ftp.voicenet.com/communit/specs/new/m200.pdf I did not see a phase plug in front of the diaphragm! Did you ever try the Electrovoice 1823M or 1824M? I like the latter the most. They reproduce a hit on a drum very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted May 24, 2004 Author Share Posted May 24, 2004 ---------------- On 5/23/2004 8:31:36 PM djk wrote: The Community Light and Sound M200 2" throat driver only has a 2:1 compression ratio. It sounds efortless on a K400 in the Klipschorn. A JBL 2328 throat adaptor is need to mate up with the modified K400. ---------------- When you suggested this mod a while ago, I purchased a pair of M200s. I haven't done anything with them yet. I do have a pair of K401 plastics here. I'll get my hands on a throat adapter and see what I come up with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 The K401 modified to mate with JBL 2328 Can be used with any 2" driver. Some friends of mine use the TAD 4001 driver. Ive used JBL 375/2440, 2441, 2450. and 2483 with good results. Finding 2328 adaptor can be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 There's a pair on eBay right now: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=47092&item=3725245307&rd=1 Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 If the supply of 2328s ever gets tight I can have them made at a local casting shop. "I did not see a phase plug in front of the diaphragm!" Doesn't have one, doesn't need one. "Did you ever try the Electrovoice 1823M or 1824M?" They're OK, the 1829 is much better sounding, but has a different throat (1.2"). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 So how does one have to modify the horn and could that adaptor also be used on the Cobreflex to try a different driver? If so, I might have a go at those things . Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khorn58 Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 How about the old jbl 2482 2"driver I have a few lying around left over form my old horn load Pa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 "How about the old jbl 2482 2"driver I have a few lying around left over form my old horn load Pa." They sound better than a K55. The M200 sounds better. "There's a pair on eBay right now:" Mass insanity, I can make them for less. The # 2 bidder looks like a shill. "So how does one have to modify the horn and could that adaptor also be used on the Cobreflex to try a different driver?" Get real. Look at the pictures of the JBL. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 "A JBL 2328 throat adaptor is needed to mate up with the modified K400." How about a more pertinent question then: You said "modified K400" -- so what has to be done to make the K-400/401 work with the 2328 adapter? I would imagine some crossover changes might be necessary? Uhg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 "How about a more pertinent question then: You said "modified K400" -- so what has to be done to make the K-400/401 work with the 2328 adapter?" No offence, but if looking at the K400 and 2328 doesn't give you an idea of what needs to be done, you won't have the skills anyway. Think: die grinder. "I would imagine some crossover changes might be necessary? Uhg." Not a problem, just put the old crossover in the closet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted May 27, 2004 Author Share Posted May 27, 2004 ---------------- On 5/26/2004 9:23:58 PM DeanG wrote: "A JBL 2328 throat adaptor is needed to mate up with the modified K400." How about a more pertinent question then: You said "modified K400" -- so what has to be done to make the K-400/401 work with the 2328 adapter? >the horn has to be shortened by cutting the throat back. A bandsaw (IMO) is the preferred tool but if you have a steady hand a pee-wee grinder will do a good job. The adapter then can be epoxied into position. I would imagine some crossover changes might be necessary? Uhg. I'd imagine so. You measure the impedance, do some thinking, learn something and create something. What's the downside? ---------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 Theres no downside in sweat equity. The up side is clarity with explosive wavefronts. My modification is now going on 30 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted May 27, 2004 Author Share Posted May 27, 2004 ---------------- On 5/27/2004 8:41:35 AM Maron Horonzak wrote: My modification is now going on 30 years. ---------------- Was an organ added or removed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 LOL Man, you old guys are a cranky bunch sometimes. Hey, if I had the pieces in my hand, I could figure out how to do it. I figured it involved taking down the horn where it begins to flare out to meet up with the adapter -- I just needed to hear it. I do enjoy taking proven, existing circuits and using better parts to sweeten the sound up -- but I'm an Everest's climb away from doing anything significant on my own. Sometimes you guys post things, and it takes me a week to figure out what in the hell you're talking about. I solder good, can fit an elephant cap onto a PCB so it doesn't look like crap, have made enough mistakes to know what not to do, and have a good handle on why some parts tied together sound good, and why some don't -- but that's about it. I've never pretended to be something I'm not. I'm sure I'll eventually work into these mods, because I'm bored ****less with gear -- but I'm sure to come crawling and begging for one of you to take my money and do the network for me right the first time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 ---------------- On 5/27/2004 10:37:48 PM DeanG wrote: LOL... Man, you old guys are a cranky bunch sometimes. http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/images/smilies/9.gif"> ... I'm sure I'll eventually work into these mods, because I'm bored ****less with gear -- but I'm sure to come crawling and begging for one of you to take my money and do the network for me right the first time. ---------------- I hear you Dean... Some of the most knowledgeable guys from this forum have posted into this thread... no snake oil or BS here! I'm still hunting down my first pair of khorns... but when I eventually get bored with them... I too will definitely look in some mods. Who knows... maybe with time, I can become wise and cranky too... later... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 I missed a lot of what has been taking place here the last few weeks, so I'm a jumping in a little late. I wouldn't bother cutting the 400 or 401 horn if you want to try another mid range driver. Why ruin a horn that can be sold or used in another project? Get another horn to use and build a new top section to hold it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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