Deang Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 LOL That's one of the advantages of being broke. You learn how to be happy with what you have real quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschfoot Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 That's because ALL the table radios then were tube. And I thought I was old. ----- The good modern tube designs have a way of presenting all the layers with tranparency instead of opacity. All the original sound sources of course overlap and interplay, but in opaque'ish designs this becomes very obvious - the inability to hear THROUGH what appears to be on top. Almost as though there is always a dominating voice changing back and forth blocking out the lesser voices. In the better tube designs this doesn't happen. All the overlapping layers have a kind of equal transparent weight to them (I don't mean loudness). This transparency is realized as a much fuller and smoother texture and a wholeness that is much more like live music. It would not be IMMEDIATELY obvious on quick comparison. It takes a bit of time living with the music you know best to suddenly hear this breakthrough. ------- I had thoughts like this is the 70's but I never wrote them down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 Mark: "opacity" What a perfect description! edit: not that I necessarily think than any of the amps mentioned above sound opaque!!! I just liked the term 'opacity.' Trying to describe something as abstract as sound can be a real challenge, and writing about audio and the sonic impressions of audio equipment -- in a way that's meaningful to others is a skill! I've never even heard the amps mentioned above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 ---------------- On 4/24/2004 5:36:06 PM mdeneen wrote: Well, let's start here. Either there IS a difference, or there ISN'T. If not, no need to move beyond square one. If there is, then it's a simple matter of how interesting to you that difference is. I think there is no shortage here on this board of vintage fans to support the nice sound of that gear - me included. But, the question was about the difference, and that is what I am suggesting. As for amps Dean, similar differences exist. Again, if one believes there is no difference, don't worry about it and enjoy what you have. But I hear a difference between vintage designs and new. Vintage designs for the most part are rather narrow-band in power output. To me, they are all the way around softer on the edges and round in the middle. In my rig they are "cloudier" sounding than modern designs. I could live with a 50's tube amp, but I don't have to, so I don't. Love to hear the Quad sometime, really. My guess would be it sounds a lot like a MC-240, but then maybe not. mdeneen ---------------- Mark, I guess if one was talking bone stock vintage to modern tube gear the anology would hold true. But in the arena of power amps I think with mild tuning and upgrading they can easily at the very least equal any modern to amp and in most case surpass them by a descent margin. Integrated amps do not lend themselves well to this type of tweaking (cost is just to high with only so so results). Preamp are a different story most vintage can never meet the mordern sound or noise floor once again cost is just to high with only so so results. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 classic Mark comment. it shall be saved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 ---------------- On 4/24/2004 5:57:43 PM Guy Landau wrote: If you like EL-84 based vintage amps, I really recommend Leak Stereo 20 http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/hfw/oldeworldehtml/leakstereo20.html or TL12+ (monoblocks). They are excellent sounding amps, work great with passive preamps (have 100mV input sensitivity) and are very easy to service. ---------------- Where would one source this amp from and what would the cost be ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev313 Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 That link didn't work for me, but I see Leaks all the time on Ebay. Generally though the US voltage one are a bit more difficult to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 ---------------- On 4/25/2004 9:59:30 AM NOSValves wrote: ---------------- On 4/24/2004 5:57:43 PM Guy Landau wrote: If you like EL-84 based vintage amps, I really recommend Leak Stereo 20 http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/hfw/oldeworldehtml/leakstereo20.html or TL12+ (monoblocks). They are excellent sounding amps, work great with passive preamps (have 100mV input sensitivity) and are very easy to service.---------------- Where would one source this amp from and what would the cost be ? ---------------- They regularly appear on ebay and Audiogon. Prices range from $400-600 for the Stereo 20 and $600-800 for the TL12+ monoblocks. More info can be found here: http://home.mira.net/~kiewavly/Leak.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 Just did a quick search for "Leak Tube" on aBay and Audiogon. eBay pulled up 1 single "mono" 12 for $1795 with preamp 2 required. Nothing on Audiogon at all they must not be to plentiful. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 A past eBay auction for the TL-12 Plus went for $362.01. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=64628&item=3089804247&rd=1 And another went for $295 just a few days ago. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=67786&item=3091849403&rd=1 Leak uses that neat "loom" wiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 ---------------- On 4/25/2004 12:25:54 PM NOSValves wrote: Just did a quick search for "Leak Tube" on aBay and Audiogon. eBay pulled up 1 single "mono" 12 for $1795 with preamp 2 required. Nothing on Audiogon at all they must not be to plentiful. Craig ---------------- Try "Leak" instead of making statements like the one above. Several Leak amps have sold on Audiogon within the last few months. I know this to be a fact because I was watching several of them. Klipsch out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 ---------------- On 4/25/2004 12:49:02 PM jazman wrote: I know this to be a fact because I was watching several of them. ---------------- Are you finally going to get a real amp? Leak amps aren't made of chicken bones, you know. Klipsch out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 ---------------- On 4/25/2004 12:49:02 PM jazman wrote: ---------------- On 4/25/2004 12:25:54 PM NOSValves wrote: Just did a quick search for "Leak Tube" on aBay and Audiogon. eBay pulled up 1 single "mono" 12 for $1795 with preamp 2 required. Nothing on Audiogon at all they must not be to plentiful. Craig ---------------- Try "Leak" instead of making statements like the one above. Several Leak amps have sold on Audiogon within the last few months. I know this to be a fact because I was watching several of them. Klipsch out. ---------------- Jazzman, Are you heading back to your previous persona ? I really could careless about past auctions I live today not yesterday! I was looking for availability. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 Come, on Craig. Don't be a poster child for George Santayana! Are you saying you can't learn anything by looking at past auction results? By the way, the Fisher SA-100 is sounding better and better every day. Nice job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 Alan, Not at all ! I just was looking for current availability nothing more and that was all I really commented on. What do you get for it ? A personal attack/baiting ! Trolls are active today Heh Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 ---------------- On 4/25/2004 12:57:48 PM paulparrot wrote: ---------------- On 4/25/2004 12:49:02 PM jazman wrote: I know this to be a fact because I was watching several of them. ---------------- Are you finally going to get a real amp? Leak amps aren't made of chicken bones, you know. Klipsch out. ---------------- Unlike some birdbrains on this forum who constantly shoot off at the beak, I own more than one amplifier topolgy, and actively listen to many other individuals high end systems. I also have more than one room in my home where music is listened to. Sometimes, if I can't find something I'm curious about, I may buy it to have the audio experience. In other words, I make sure I know what I'm talking about before opening my mouth. A concept that's totally foreign with you. I'm sure I've listened to more diverse high end systems in the last 6 to 12 months that you have in 6 years. My 2A3 Moondogs are consistantly praised for their musical and wonderfully open presentation by people with more audio and direct music knowledge than you. I'll put my 2 channel system listed below against any you have in your home. You are one clueless person whose drivel is so monotonous. Put up or shut up! Klipsch out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 ---------------- On 4/25/2004 3:13:05 PM jazman wrote: ---------------- On 4/25/2004 12:57:48 PM paulparrot wrote: ---------------- On 4/25/2004 12:49:02 PM jazman wrote: I know this to be a fact because I was watching several of them. ---------------- Are you finally going to get a real amp? Leak amps aren't made of chicken bones, you know. Klipsch out. ---------------- Unlike some birdbrains on this forum who constantly shoot off at the beak, I own more than one amplifier topolgy, and actively listen to many other individuals high end systems. I also have more than one room in my home where music is listened to. Sometimes, if I can't find something I'm curious about, I may buy it to have the audio experience. In other words, I make sure I know what I'm talking about before opening my mouth. A concept that's totally foreign with you. I'm sure I've listened to more diverse high end systems in the last 6 to 12 months that you have in 6 years. My 2A3 Moondogs are consistantly praised for their musical and wonderfully open presentation by people with more audio and direct music knowledge than you. I'll put my 2 channel system listed below against any you have in your home. You are one clueless person whose drivel is so monotonous. Put up or shut up! Klipsch out. ---------------- Is this really necessary? Sheesh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 ---------------- On 4/25/2004 1:19:11 PM NOSValves wrote: ---------------- On 4/25/2004 12:49:02 PM jazman wrote: ---------------- On 4/25/2004 12:25:54 PM NOSValves wrote: Just did a quick search for "Leak Tube" on aBay and Audiogon. eBay pulled up 1 single "mono" 12 for $1795 with preamp 2 required. Nothing on Audiogon at all they must not be to plentiful. Craig ---------------- Try "Leak" instead of making statements like the one above. Several Leak amps have sold on Audiogon within the last few months. I know this to be a fact because I was watching several of them. Klipsch out. ---------------- Jazzman, Are you heading back to your previous persona ? I really could careless about past auctions I live today not yesterday! I was looking for availability. Craig ---------------- Mr. NOSValves, Merely using the keyword "Leak" on Audiogon produced a Leak 20 listing. I submit your previous persona here is on dispaly here. As with so many of your post, your voice of authority tone is not backed by more detailed facts. Why not learn to moderate your pronouncements with respect to your limited pervue? Instead, I'm sure it's easier to say someone is picking on you. Klipsch out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 Jazzman, It's only logical that if you were thrilled with your Moonies you wouldn't be actively hunting for replacements. If they are that sublime, you should have Moonies in every listening room. IMHO you're protesting too much to be convincing. Anyway, good luck with your search. Klipsch out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 Jazzman, This is a true warning of total concern for you. As of the last few months you have avoided me and I have avoided you. This is turn has let us both to exist on this forum in complete harmony. You have broken the Ice here. I request once more that you refrain from posting to me in any way, shape or form and I in return will do the same for you. enough said Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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