artto Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 I have a confession to make. After my scathing flame of high-end audio slicks yesterday, in particular, The Absolute Sound, today I received my first subscription copy of Stereophile in many, many years. Yeah, I know, but when I ran across an offer of 12 bucks for an annual subscription I figured What the hell? Interestingly, it seems quite a few readers have been expressing the same concern I did yesterday about the increasingly obscene and predominant porno-pricing of high-end audio gear. On the other what was really surprising is that I hadnt even gotten 1/5 of the way through the July issue of Stereophile only to see the Klipsch name mentioned no less than a dozen times and specifically the Klipschorn mentioned three times by both readers and editors (and not in the usual unkindly manner either). This is truly spectacular (and amusing) considering Klipsch doesnt even advertise in Stereophile (at least not in this, my first issue), and I suspect many, it not most of their readers heartwarmingly engage in Klipsch bashing, and this being the first issue Ive even looked at in at least 15 years! Nothing like free advertising from a source that doesnt eschew your products. Wonders never cease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebes Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Artto, I suspect it's because with the popularity and recognizability (is that actually a word) of the name amongst most stereophoiles, Klipsch has become in a effect a standard. Affordability, engineering, build quality and dynamics have made it benchmark to compare against. Does even one speaker company have the legion of fans that Klipsch has? Sure B&K, Mirage etc. have their fans and move a lot of units. But, a lot of the speaker builders in places like Stereophile are almost, in effect, mom and pop operations. Nobody's going to buy that crap if they run comparisons between oh say the Extended Pinky 2000 and the Holyier Than Though 153A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 ---------------- On 7/23/2004 5:57:57 PM artto wrote: ...what was really surprising is that I hadn’t even gotten 1/5 of the way through the July issue of Stereophile only to see the Klipsch name mentioned no less than a dozen times and specifically the Klipschorn mentioned three times by both readers and editors (and not in the usual unkindly manner either). This is truly spectacular (and amusing) considering Klipsch doesn’t even advertise in Stereophile (at least not in this, my first issue)... Nothing like free advertising from a source that doesn’t eschew your products. Wonders never cease. ---------------- Artto, I noticed the same thing. I think it followed Ray Garrison's letter to the editor a few months ago and the editor's comment in the same issue that he'd like to arrange for a review of K-horns. Now, that would really be a wonder! Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 "Affordability" Maybe for the lower end but not for the top end. $7,500 for a new pair of KHorns is not exactly affordable. I never win any lottery. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 ---------------- On 7/23/2004 7:22:21 PM neo33 wrote: "Affordability" Maybe for the lower end but not for the top end. $7,500 for a new pair of KHorns is not exactly affordable. I never win any lottery. . ---------------- The Klipschorns are still cheap when you compare them with the competitors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 Neo, life affords opportunities and costs. You can have those close to brand new Khorns for around three grand. If you were on the stick like Jazman last year, the Khorns would have cost you $700 and a day moving. Some people have no qualms about dropping big bucks on a preamp/amp combo, but won't do the same for their speakers. Reality is you usually have to sacrifice something important to purchase something else important. Most Khorn owners would say that their speakers are THE most important part of their system, and budget accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 ---------------- On 7/24/2004 8:26:02 AM sheltie dave wrote: Reality is you usually have to sacrifice something important to purchase something else important. Most Khorn owners would say that their speakers are THE most important part of their system, and budget accordingly. ---------------- Amen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 There are very few speakers that have been in production, virtually unchanged, for over 50 years. And even fewer companies live that long. That "speaks" for itself, regardless of the "bashers". DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 "If you were on the stick like Jazman last year, the Khorns would have cost you $700 and a day moving." If I can be that lucky! I've been searching for that last 6 months and I have NEVER EVER seen a pair that cheap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiob Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 cant type, just read`n n listen` to Floyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted July 27, 2004 Share Posted July 27, 2004 Think about this. $7,500 for a car would be a joke. ANYONE can do that. Spending that sort of money or much more on a good system that will last you for years isn't that unreasonable. It's not like a computer that becomes dated in a few years, these speakers will last forever! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 I was thinking about the sudden "about-face" that StereoPile has seemingly made...I think it's a marketing stategy move. The money is always in the lower 50 percentile (look at our tax structure!), so I figure that if they start to focus on the middle-of-the-road audio, they will appeal to a broader market, of course. It's the subscription base, and the bigger it is, the more attractive it becomes to advertise there. It simply gets delivered to more people who are already interested in the subject matter. Not that I think that they REALLY intend to go back on all of the cr*p that they have heaped on horns in the past, but that it is a simple editorial marketing change of direction. I expect it to be subtle, yet consistant and long-term. After all, you can't P.O. a growing portion of your potential market and be complacent with a diminishing subscription base even if they are the only stereo magazine left in publication. An ever larger portion of an ever shrinking market is a bad path to be on. Since horns DIDN'T go away even after the years-long tirades and dismissals against horns BUT their subscription base did (go away, that is), perhaps they recognise a "new" potential market of previously alienated horn-oriented potential subscribers when they see it... I don't think that these people are serious about audio anyway or they would not have painted themselves into the anti-horn corner in the first place. They would have been pro-horn at the time if there had been any money in it...now that things are changing, well, what do you know- look whose sucking up to the horn crowd now?! DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 kenratboy, A word of warning from the elder to the younger. It is dangerous to fall into the "$7,500 for a car is nothing" mindframe, you sort of lose touch with reality. I am driving a 1988 Buick Century with paint falling off it, because it cost me $400 and that was all I could afford for a car last year when I needed one. My partners and I are getting our feet back under us, though it is a long, slow process. A few years ago I didn't think anything about buying my wife the Mitsubishi Montero she wanted, so she could drive our daughter to (private) school. One decision by the investors, and *poof* there it goes... Most people, with reasonable effort, can lead a lifestyle where it seems that the $7,500 car would be an almost trivial purchase. But always guard your back, and make sure you've got the reserves to withstand the unexpected sandstorms that sometimes blow our way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundog Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 artto- Where did you find stereophile for $12 per year? What issue are you refering to, I'd like to check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted July 30, 2004 Author Share Posted July 30, 2004 ---------------- On 7/29/2004 9:21:12 PM soundog wrote: artto- Where did you find stereophile for $12 per year? What issue are you refering to, I'd like to check it out. ---------------- At first I thought it was a "special offer", But apparently, from what I can tell, it's the new subscription rate. I wouldnt get too excited though. Its the same old ****. I think your money is better spent just buying another CD or something. I must to tell you, Ive gotten very bored reading every article, not finishing one of them, after hearing the same crap I read 15 years ago. Only the names (for the most part) have changed. If history holds true, 99% of the companies being reviewed in there wont even exist in 5-10 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted July 30, 2004 Author Share Posted July 30, 2004 ---------------- On 7/27/2004 8:52:08 PM kenratboy wrote: Think about this. $7,500 for a car would be a joke. ANYONE can do that. Spending that sort of money or much more on a good system that will last you for years isn't that unreasonable. It's not like a computer that becomes dated in a few years, these speakers will last forever! ---------------- I agree. My point was that the idiots at The Absolute Sound and Stereophile are basically promoting overpriced horse**** products that they are trying to convince John Q. Public to buy so that they can collect advertising revenues from them in return to support the magazine. In Stereophile (July 04) Fremer reviews the Wavac SH833 power amp ($350,000). What does he use for comparison to justify the price and pride of ownership? Picasso. People pay millions for a Picasso. From that perspective, these $350,000 amplifiers are a bargain. Yeah, right. Well Fremer, thats for an ORIGINAL Picasso. A one of a kind Picasso. A Picasso of which there will be no more because the guy is dead kind of Picasso. The kind of thing that is not easily duplicated, even fraudulently as a new work Picasso by another extremely talented artist. Were talking about a PRODUCTION amplifier (albeit not mass-produced) that despite its substantial crating arrived damaged and non-working, only to be repaired and fail again a week later, that was made by a company whos primary business is large scale road building. Huh? Excuse me, but I dont see the correlation. Perhaps, maybe, if they had first dabbled in car stereo ..nah. Or in the March 04 issue, a $9500 amplifier, that supposedly took 25 years to develop, only for its manufacturer to discover a design flaw in production that induces hum and causes a significant audible and measurable sound degradation! Im sorry, but you could teach a chimpanzee to do better in that amount of time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 I consider the read of Stereophil to be chaep thrills. I like the music reviews. Cartridges, digital hardware reviews are helpful. Amps and speakers I find less helpful, and overly inflated in price as previously staered by others. THey would be afraid to review K Horns with Blueberry and tube monoblocks. To many dome tweeters and SS amps. I have to admit I am interested in the Mark Levinson designed Red Rose speakers with ribbon tweeters. ML seems to know his stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted July 30, 2004 Author Share Posted July 30, 2004 ---------------- On 7/30/2004 10:59:05 AM Audio Flynn wrote: I consider the read of Stereophil to be chaep thrills. I like the music reviews. Cartridges, digital hardware reviews are helpful. Amps and speakers I find less helpful, and overly inflated in price as previously staered by others. THey would be afraid to review K Horns with Blueberry and tube monoblocks. To many dome tweeters and SS amps. I have to admit I am interested in the Mark Levinson designed Red Rose speakers with ribbon tweeters. ML seems to know his stuff. ---------------- Rick, you might be interested with the following little story. A few years back when the Consumer Electronics Show still held a summer show in Chicago, I was visiting the Levinson suite at one of the hotels talking with Marks national sales manager. They were demonstrating their HQD (Hartley, Quad, Decca ) (Decca ribbon tweeter) system with a modified Studer ½ 30ips tape deck. Naturally the question came up as to what kind of speakers and other equipment I was using. As Klipschorns were out of favor with audiophiles big time back then, I sheepishly replied a 3 channel Klipschorn system, but theyre in a specially built room that was designed around them He replied, Mark grew up with Klipschorns. His father has Klipschorns. In fact, our ML2 class A amplifiers were designed with two speakers in mind, the Quad ESLs and the Klipschorn I nearly **** in my pants. A few years later, when Klipsch showed up at this event for the first time in decades, I'll give you one guess what kind of amplification they were using. Personally, I think Klipsch missed an opportunity when Levinson went bankrupt. They should have bought them. Also, interestly, the Klipsch phono pickup that they came out with years ago bore a striking resemblence to Levinson's pickup. Hmmmmmmmm......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 Personally, I think Klipsch missed an opportunity when Levinson went bankrupt. They should have bought them. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ That would have been an interesting synergy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 31, 2004 Share Posted July 31, 2004 well, there is a place where i live called abt, and because of my work i have gotten to know the owners and what not, but anyways they sell mono sub amps for 15 to 20 grand, they sell speakers that go for 15 grand each i mean if you ask me that is outrageous, but he told me that people buy them, i mean does a 30 grand pair of speakers make music for you or what? i mean i spent what i called a lot of money on my b&w's and its just like mine were chump change compared to their stuff... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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