Khorn Bass

[Rudy81]

Question for Khorn experts. I have my new Khorns set up in a temporary location that has wood floors, windows and openings to other rooms...not ideal, I know. However in listening tests, I find that my Belles and La Scala have much more punch in the bass section.

Both Khorn woofers are operating and are in phase. However, the tail is not sealed properly. In your opinion, is the lack of bass compared with the Belles due to poor acoustics and poor seal with the tail and walls?

[Frzninvt]

Perhaps it is not a lack of bass, but the dominant punch in the particular range that you are accustomed to with the Belle's and La Scala's since they do not dig as deep as the Khorns. When I went from Belle's to Khorn's in the front the additional bass response was immediately evident.

I still cant find/get the original OEM tail seals so I used pipe insulation which works very well since it is larger and more apt to fill in any gaps or voids.

My room situation is far from ideal but the Khorns sound complete though. I don't think I could go back to a Belle or La Scala now.

[Rudy81]

You are probably correct. There is definately a differance in the bass section, although I have been used to the Belles for 16 years since I purchased them. I'm sure the differance is due to the seal issue as well as the room they are currently in. The Belles are in a tuned room and enclosed when you close the door. The Khorns are in a "bare" room with openings behind the Khorns and on one side. Less than optimum I know. When turned up loud, the Khorns do "punch" quite a bit.

I look forward to properly setting them up in their new home...wherever that will be.

Glad to hear you would not go back to the Belles.

[Dylanl]

Rudy, when I first brought my Khorns home I thought the same thing. I was thinking "what is all the hype about" these have no low end. Believe me once you seal them tightly to the wall "no joke" it should be a night and day difference. Once I did that in my setup you can actually feel it in your rear-end as you sit on the couch. I have found that amplification also plays a huge part in making Khorns sound good. I have tried at least 6-10 different amps (tubes & SS) on these and found so far that my humble little Scott 299B can hang with just about anyone of them. So, look at those 2 things. Let us know what you think after

[Rudy81]

Again, thank you for the information. I figure it has to be the seals and the room acoustics. I am using and will use my Parasound HALO gear, which has more than enough power in watts and amps to push just about anything. Those amps sounded fabulous with my Belles and the La Scalas. I have added the ALK type A crossovers and love the mid and highs. The bass issue should resolve itself when I properly place them.

Placement is crucial even with my Belles. I played with minor changes in angle and distance for days. I now have them in what is my opinion, the perfect location.

[Marvel]

Rudy,

The Parasound gear is great stuff. That certainly shouldn't be the problem. Are you saying that right now you don't even have them in real corners?

Marvel

[Rudy81]

Marvel:

No, they are in corners, but don't seal very well due to one set of missing seals and poor wall construction. My questions are due to what seems to be a much more punchy bass from the Belles than from the Khorns. I did check woofer operation, woofer phase and am using ALK crossovers.

Of course, this isn't an apples to apples comparisson because my Belles are in my HT room which I have "tuned", has bass traps and sound absorbers as well as carpeting and is also a smaller room by about a third than where the Khorns currently stand.

[D0N]

Just be glad you didn't go from cornwalls to khorns!

I did and really missed the heart massaging bass of the cornwalls. I still have not properly sealed my khorns so maybe they'll get better.

[garymd]

I went from corns to khorns but still have the corns in a different system.

It's a different type of bass with less punch (except when really cranked), and more detail. I love them both. Your ears need to adjust also. Sealing will really help but it may not be night and day as some say.

[Q-Man]

If it was me I would bring in one of the Belles into that room and A/B them. I wouldn't be able to stand guessing why the Belle

had more punch. Somethings not right.

Sealing the Klipschorn will help it's output from 200 to 400Hz. Below that it won't change.

[oldschoolmusic]

What is this seal material made of you talk about and where do you find it?

[NOSValves]

Lascalas have way more defined bass then a Khorn IMHO. I would imagine that your situation is making this even more pronounced. I have listened to properly setup Khorns and love the way they surround you with a bass presence but I always miss the punch of my Lascalas. I hope to some day have a room large enough to use a set of the new Klipsch THX Ultra subs with my Lascalas I think this combo would be a Khorn killer for sure. This way I could move the Lascalas out away from the walls and still have the quick defined lower bass with the Ultra subs with the incredible deep sound stage from moving the Lascalas out. Ahhh the dreams.

Craig

[3dzapper]

"Lascalas have way more defined bass then a Khorn IMHO.'

Send me some of that solder you've been smoking!

I got a '78 Lascala from Shawn Fogg for a center. The first question I asked myself when I fired it up was,"where's the bass?" And "how can a speaker this big not have more on the bottom."

Last night and this morning I built up an ALK network for it and have been cooking it in all day with a Scott 99D. Better but I need to add the Loudness to get satisfactory bass and the bottom octave is among the missing. It definately is not the "big sound" that eminates from properly set up Klipschorns. Your corner/cabinette location helps you more than you realize.

Although they do have more and sharper bass than Heresys, they have less than but cleaner bass than Cornwalls. I would not run them without a sub coming in at around 60HZ just like my Heresys.

Rick

[Rudy81]

I don't think there is anything "wrong" with these. I know all the gear prior to the speakers was the same gear I was using on my Belles, including the ALK crossovers. The only differance now is the Khorns and the room acoustics.

When I find a place to live and can set these up properly, I will then be able to make a true comparrison.

Thanks for all the help guys.

[Dylanl]

I have listen to Klipschorns & Lascalas and the bass output is not even close. Add a sub maybe, but just not the same. I have what some consider to be a pretty good sub (SVS) and I do not think it can keep pace with the TIGHT bass you get from the Khorn. I use the word tight because it is not boomy like my RF7's or any sub it's much more refined. The more I read of this thread the more I believe it is a matter of getting use to. Maybe room nodes also have a lot to do with. Artto seem to have Khorns and room specs. down to a science. Post your question in Architetural sectin and see what response you get.

[Rudy81]

Thanks for the input. I too have and SVS, but it was not used during the comparisson. Matter of fact, it is packed up. I'm sure the room acoustics is not giving me a fair comparrison, nor is the fact that the Khorns are not sealed well due to wall and seal problems.

[Guy Landau]

IMO,

The Khorns bass lacks real body and sound muddy. I've found the LaScala bass to be more accurate. I tend to prefer direct firing woofers (like Altec and JBL and maybe cornwalls) better. They might measure worse but I enjoy listenning to music, and not measuring it. So who cares if they have more measured distortion.

[ricktate]

Hey Rudy you might try what Andy got me to try and has done to K-Horns to, on a smooth floor use those grippers from wal-mart i did on my LaScalas and wow,,,much better. Andy said they installed some Ks in a home with the grippers on them and had Paul come by give them a listen he said ,,now thats the way they should sound...but you do need to seal tailboards and the horz. section of bass bin the top part to the wall. I think a lot of us dont take time to set them up right with all the seals.I already got grippers on the ones im working on...if i ever get them done i will let you all know Rick

[artto]

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On 11/2/2004 12:41:58 PM Guy Landau wrote:

IMO,

The Khorns bass lacks real body and sound muddy. I've found the LaScala bass to be more accurate. I tend to prefer direct firing woofers (like Altec and JBL and maybe cornwalls) better. They might measure worse but I enjoy listenning to music, and not measuring it. So who cares if they have more measured distortion.

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Wrong. Its the room Guy. I can't understand why some people seem to refuse to admit that the room has the most influnce on the sound they are hearing, especially with Klipschorns, and especially in regards to bass response. If you prefer direct radiators, you also prefer the sound of higher distortion, which is in fact, several orders of magnitude higher in any direct radiator than what a Khorn is producing. Therefore if you enjoy/prefer the sound of a direct radiator listening to your music, then you enjoy/prefer the more distorted sound. Of course some people also seem to think its adequate and proper to listen to large "long throw" theater systems at a listening distance of only 6 or 7 feet (or even less) too. "To each his own".

[Rudy81]

Rick, thanks. I like the gripper idea. Are they those 1/4" square, thick rubber like sticky products? Also, why seal the top of the high section. Would not the same thing be achieved by sealing the top of the bass bin? Just wondering.