Whats the difference between LaScala's and Belle's

[klpschfan]

I know some of you probably want to slap me after reading that title, but I am seriously curious. Besides the obvious cabinetry differences, the drivers in each speaker are the exact same models, with exact same crossover points ( except the midrange horns highpass, which is 450hz on Belle and 400hz on LaScala ). They also have the same frequency responce, power rating, and only 1 db off each other in spl level ( 120db versus 121db ).

Is there a difference in Sound??

For that matter, throw the K-Horn in this. Its sensitivity is a little higher than the Belle's, Frequency responce goes 17hz lower, but has exact same crossover points and drivers. Larger cabinet seems to be main difference.

Keep in mind the on Heritage series speaker I have ever heard was a pair of K-Horns in a store with 18 foot metal roof, tile floors, and they were in the corners of brick walls 22 feet apart, while being powered by a Denon 80 watt per channel, stereo reciever and 5 disc cd changer.

[klpschfan]

Here is my goal in the above question. I just recently became engaged, and me and my soon to be wife are already looking and planing on our purchase of a house. Also due to some circumstances not currently under my control, I will be moveing back to my parents for a short time till the wedding. I am gona start saving up money for my theater ( fiancee has already approved it as long as I use MY money, which is why I am saving up now rather than after the wedding ). I hope to use Heritage line speakers, but have no way of listening to any before my purchase ( despite the fact that I work for a Klipsch dealer, we don't stock the heritage line ). The massive K-Horns themselves likely wont be used, even if I buy them before the wedding the fiancee/wife will likely throw a fit. I was considering 3 Belle's across the front, with Heresys as surrounds, but I wonder if the extra money on the Belle's over the LaScala's is worth it.

[Colin]

first, Khorns have less footprint than Belles, wifes love them more

second, From half-a-dozen sales on eBay, in August 2004: Belle pairs, which share the same wonderful mid and high range drivers and horns as the mighty Khorn, fall off below 100Hz, yet have a tipped up bottom and top-end response, but dont require a corner either, like LaScala but have cloth covered fronts, sold from $800 to 2075 (average $1,352)

From half-a-dozen sales on eBay: LaScala pairs, which also share the same lens and drivers as the Khorn, also fall below 100Hz, their response is rougher but NOT tipped at both ends like the Belles (which so many people like that many loudspeakers intentionally tip the ends of their frequency response). LaScalas dont require a corner, unlike the Belles they have an exposed front, sold from $750 to $2,504 (average $1,393)

[Olorin]

Um, the La Scala and the Klipschorn share the same mid driver and horn, while the Belle is unique. All three share the same tweeter and horn.

[klpschfan]

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On 12/29/2004 10:23:23 PM Colin wrote:

first, Khorns have less footprint than Belles, wifes love them more

second, From half-a-dozen sales on eBay, in August 2004: Belle pairs, which share the same wonderful mid and high range drivers and horns as the mighty Khorn, fall off below 100Hz, yet have a tipped up bottom and top-end response, but dont require a corner either, like LaScala but have cloth covered fronts, sold from $800 to 2075 (average $1,352)

From half-a-dozen sales on eBay: LaScala pairs, which also share the same lens and drivers as the Khorn, also fall below 100Hz, their response is rougher but NOT tipped at both ends like the Belles (which so many people like that many loudspeakers intentionally tip the ends of their frequency response). LaScalas dont require a corner, unlike the Belles they have an exposed front, sold from $750 to $2,504 (average $1,393)

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Ok. I don't want to sound like I am bashing your analasys or anything. I am just a little confused by it. Explain it to me like you would trying to explain the differences to a 10 year old. The biggest things you said to me that cought my attention are that both the Belles and LaScala's responce falls off below 100hz, but that the Belle's responce is "tipped up" at the higher and lower ends. How could the responce be "tipped up" if they have the same drivers? Are there differences in the crossovers that cause the Belles to do this?

To me, the Belles look better than the LaScalas.

The K-horns are pretty much out of the equation all together. Besides the fact I think she would kill me for having such big speakers ( trust me, I will be pushing things with even the Belles and LaScala's ), I want the exact same 3 speakers across the front stage, and I doubt I could build a front wall with a fake corner in the center for the center K-horn. Not only that, but they are over 50" tall, and I like my screen to start at about 40" from the floor.

As far as prices on e-bay and such, I can get brand spanking new from the factory LaScalas for about $650 cheaper per speaker than the Belles, and the Belles are $600 less than K-horns. The Heresy's are nearly $900 cheaper than the LaScalas. At least according to the prices that are listed for employee purchase thru the company I work for.

[IndyKlipschFan]

Ok. I don't want to sound like I am bashing your analasys or anything. I am just a little confused by it. Explain it to me like you would trying to explain the differences to a 10 year old.

You already said the answer:

"To me, the Belles look better than the LaScalas."

=============================================================

That is also why Paul W Klipsch created the Belle, to look better.

You could argue the finest midrange horn/ driver combination that Paul created, was used in the Klipschhorn and La Scala.(Same one) Everything else is a close copy. (e.g. almost as good.)

I would also say from an investment side if you are able to get a Klipschorn at a substantial discount and have corners for them to dissapear into, by all means it is "the flagship." 10 years from now, it will hold its value more than any other Klipsch speaker. You will know you own the best. I will also echo like a lot of others have they do dissapear into the corners and make great places for pictures etc., to sit on.

(never live plants = water stains.)

A Belle or I would even suggest a older Cornwall II (which was made years ago to be used vertical or on it's side..(where the drivers are horizontal) is a better speaker from a frequency standpoint. It goes lower than a Belle or La Scala and is short enough, too, for your height issue/request.

I have this setup with k horns and a Cornwall II center and love it. You can hide it in a bookcase, or have one built like I did. If you copy and paste the picture above my name you can see the family room. It,(the Cornwall II) is hidden in the cabinet.

Hope this helps, rather than confuse you more.

If your looking for that ultimate timbre nirvana.. And will add a sub, I would say Belle, Belle, Belle, or La Scala, La Scala, La Scala. The Same or Heresey for rear - sides too.

[scott0527]

I'll tell you this, La Scalas don't hide well into corners. They are deep and really stick out into the room. If you try to tow them in at all, it makes it that much worse. For the corners, nothing beats the Khorn. It is taller than the LaScala and the Belles but it saves you a lot of floor space and just looks better in a corner. I have no experience with Belles. I'm just throwing in my opinion. If you gotta have the same 3 speakers accross the front, then you don't want 3 Khorns.

What are some of the details(dimensions etc.) of your planned HT room. That might help others here give you some good advice.

[colterphoto1]

As PWK envisioned and engineered it might be a good place to start. Khorns in the corners and a Belle in the centre. LaScalas aren't as pretty, have rough frequency response and take up a LOT of room.

[Olorin]

You won't go wrong with Khorns in the corners and a La Scala or a Belle in the center. As mentioned previously, the Khorns will take up the least amount of space as mains. Think of the La Scala as a square Klipschorn that doesn't go as low, and think of the Belle as a prettier La Scala. The La Scala is the original center to the Khorn -- if memory serves the Belle came along when Mrs. Klipsch decreed that the La Scala was too ugly for her living room.

Two or four Heresy surrounds and you're the envy of half the forum.

[cjgeraci]

I will spare you the K-horn pitch because that would not fit into your plans, but the others are correct - K-horns would be your best option out of the three.

That being said, I can somewhat relate because K-horns were out of the question for me (for now), and I had to decide between LaScalas and Belles. I ended up with Belles. As to sonic differences, there are not many. Some say that the Belle's midrange performance is not as good as the LaScalas because of a smaller horn and/or the design of the horn. Having auditioned Belles and LaScalas, I honestly could not tell a difference between their midranges, and I do not find my Belles to be lacking in that respect.

Another thing to consider is the size of your room. LaScalas have often been called "PA speakers," not necessarily as a knock or a derogatory term, but because the design of the cabinets was more suited for long throw or larger rooms. If you have a small to medium-sized room (like mine), Belles may perform a little better than LaScalas, which tend to like larger open areas. As for looks, you've already covered that in one of your responses.

Bottom line. LaScalas and Belles sound pretty similar, and it may come down to personal taste and the size of your room.

Carl.

[cjgeraci]

Here's what Belles look like in my corners - downstairs. Carl.

[cjgeraci]

Single Belle (and sub). Carl.

[Griffinator]

I'm going to throw the same pitch, dude. Go for K's in the corner, you'll be happier, your new wife will be happier after she sees how much less space they take up (and if she has any taste in furniture, she'll love the look of K's with a Belle center anyway)

Don't do LaScalas if you're worried about WAF. They are butt ugly speakers, period.

Do Belles in the rear as well. You'll love the extended range over the Heresies, and the "furniture" will end up matching better, too!

My plan of action is a full 7.l system with 4 K's and 3 Belles. I plan to open up most of my basement to execute this plan. It'll be awhile, but when it happens, man....

[klpschfan]

cjgeraci,Thanks for those pics, they help alot. The company I work for even sell those audio stands you are using, or at least some similar ( sanus brand right? ), and that gives me a good visual representation of what the size of the Belles are.

Due to looks alone , the LaScalla's are out of the picture, unless money comes into play a larger roll than I am expecting.

There are a couple reasons I havn't been considering the Khorns. For one, I think if they are added they will begin to stretch my planned budget some. To give you an idea, I could get 2 Lascalas for every Khorn, and 3 Belles are only $400 more than 2 Khorns and that would complete the front stage alltogether.

Also, I am a bit of a fanatic about having all 3 front speakers being the same identical speaker. I don't know why, but it just bothers me if they are not. When we are slow at work, and I have nothing else to do, I will go into our Demo room and pop in a movie to watch. There are 3 tvs in this room, all Mitsubishi brand, one 52 inch DLP, one 62 inch DLP and a 65inch CRT. The 65" is on the center wall with a Larier entertainment center around it. In the cabinet are a Dish Network HDTV reciver, Denon DVD1910 DVD player, Denon AVR3805 reciever, and just for kicks one day I threw a 3 channel Denon POA8300 ( 120 watts per channel ) amp that we had laying around on the front speakers. The speakers are a complete RF7 system, with 2 more RS7s for the rear centers. I can audibly tell a difference between the "tonaly matched" RC7 and the RF7's when something moves across the screen. I can also tell that the RC7 sits higher than the RF7's horns do, and it aggrivates me emensly (sp??). This is why I fear doing 2 Khorns as mains will a Belle center, as the mid/high horns themselves will be at differing heights. I would most likely rather do 3 Belles.

It also seems that most of you think I would be putting the Belles in the corners of the room, in which they would take up more floor space then the Khorns will. This isn't the case, most likely they would all be flat along the wall, and most likely about 3 foot from the corners as I plan to put a sub in one or both front corners of the room.

Then again, all of this could be a mute point if the house I end up getting doesn't have a room of the size I am hoping for. I am really just trying to get ideas.

What type of amplification should I look for? I was planing on Anthem seperates.

[cjgeraci]

You are welcome. Yes, those are Sanus stands, and there is a similar type of stand that the TV is sitting on (soon to be eliminated once the TV ends up on the Cornwall - thanks, Don).

Interesting comments about your Reference seven experience. I've owned RF-7s, RB-75s, and a RC-7, and they always sounded perfectly matched to my ears. However, you've had a different experience so maybe it is best that you go with three matching Belles along the front three - otherwise it may drive you crazy trying to listen for differences (or if you happen to hear any).

I have not had experience with Anthem separates. I do recall some comments of them being on the bright side, which, if accurate, would not make them the best for your horns. Aragon, Rotel, McIntosh, and B&K are all popular solid state suggestions in here. I run solid state Marantz and Rotel with my RF-7s and think Rotel amps make a good solid state match for horns. I also like my Classe solid state pre/pro which does 5.1 duties in my setup.

That being said, I generally prefer great tubes to great solid state, and I would run tubes somewhere (if not everywhere) in your chain, at least for two-channel. For my Belles, I run a JuicyMusic Peach tube pre/pro with a Marantz 8B push-pull tube amp, and after it is rebuilt, I will also be running my Dynaco Mark III with my Belles. If within your budget, you could run a solid state processor (for HT and 5.1), and then a tube preamp for two-channel (with a HT bypass). It just depends on what sounds good to your ears and what your budget will allow.

You may want to post a thread in two-channel asking for preamp/amp suggestions for Belles - along with your projected budget and new or rebuilt. Solid state suggestions will pop up as well as suggestions for tube pre/pros and push pull and SET amps. Before doing so, you will want to search the archives in two-channel because many, many threads have already discussed what people love with Heritage. That way you could focus your questions instead of just asking "what should I run?"

Of course, processor/amplification is always a loaded question. The best answer will always be for you to audition equipment in your own home once you purchase the speakers to see what sounds good to you.

Carl.

[boomer9911]

why does everyone go MASSIVE, Khorns may be big but not that much, more finicky about placement for themselves, and if it doesn't fit, it won't work IMO, own a pair myself...

[JohnA]

"Is there a difference in Sound??"

There IS a difference in the sound of a Belle and a La Scala. The La Scala bass horn has a small response bump around 150 Hz that the Belle doesn't. It makes the La Scala sound "warmer" and makes male voices heavier. All of the drivers are the same. In early years, all 3 used the same crossover, even though the Belle uses a shorter, 500 Hz squawker horn vs the 400 Hz horn in a La Scala and K-horn.

[Frank Jansz]

On 12/31/2004 at 12:36 AM, cjgeraci said:

I will spare you the K-horn pitch because that would not fit into your plans, but the others are correct - K-horns would be your best option out of the three.

That being said, I can somewhat relate because K-horns were out of the question for me (for now), and I had to decide between LaScalas and Belles. I ended up with Belles. As to sonic differences, there are not many. Some say that the Belle's midrange performance is not as good as the LaScalas because of a smaller horn and/or the design of the horn. Having auditioned Belles and LaScalas, I honestly could not tell a difference between their midranges, and I do not find my Belles to be lacking in that respect.

Another thing to consider is the size of your room. LaScalas have often been called "PA speakers," not necessarily as a knock or a derogatory term, but because the design of the cabinets was more suited for long throw or larger rooms. If you have a small to medium-sized room (like mine), Belles may perform a little better than LaScalas, which tend to like larger open areas. As for looks, you've already covered that in one of your responses.

Bottom line. LaScalas and Belles sound pretty similar, and it may come down to personal taste and the size of your room.

Carl.

Personally I would go with the K Horns in the Corners and ask Klipsh to Front Mount The 18 Woofer  using the same Crossover and using a L Pad Styunator to reduce the Mid Horn and get it zbslsnced this way it will create a more accurate soundstage and either use the Cornwall  or The Bob Crites Cornscals in The Centre or the Bell Klipsh in the Centre  you will need a room at least ,22 Feet wide X at Least ,30 Feet long  with heavy Velvet Draped to get it Sounding Perfect.

By

Francis Jansz

Australia

 

[Frank Jansz]

19 minutes ago, Frank Jansz said:

Personally I would go with the K Horns in the Corners and ask Klipsh to Front Mount The 18 Woofer  using the same Crossover and using a L Pad Styunator to reduce the Mid Horn and get it zbslsnced this way it will create a more accurate soundstage and either use the Cornwall  or The Bob Crites Cornscals in The Centre or the Bell Klipsh in the Centre  you will need a room at least ,22 Feet wide X at Least ,30 Feet long  with heavy Velvet Draped to get it Sounding Perfect.

By

Francis Jansz

Australia

 

 My Friend Mr Nicholas Apostolou . Built his Room  34 Feet Long 24 Feet Wide and 14 Feet High  with a 12 zfooy Diameter Doom in the Centre  he has got 2 side Walls with Ref Velvet Drapes Motorised and one 24 Foot wall With a zvelvet Drapes Motorised and behind the 24 Foot Draped walls he rendered and used Plaster and Painted the Wall White  with a 21 Fgoy wide White Screen  and used a 16 Lumens Projector for his Home Theatre. He has got a pair of Klipsh Korner zhorn Cabinets in his corners and s Pair of Cornwall's  in the Centre and behind his draped he has got 2 15 " Canton Powered Subs . The side walls are done on Double Hebel Brick and does not have any sound escaping from his sound and theatre Lounge. When I visit him it seems like that I am in a actual Cinema theatre. And he used a Roksan power amp for his Korner Horns a Phase linear for his Cornwall's .and I sit there listening to music for at least 4 ton5 Hours every fortnight. . Never have I heard sound like this sounds like the whole band is in the Centre of the room and alive.

His E mail is. Nick6.apostolou@gmail.com

Should you write to him he will be happy to send you some photos.

RGDS

Francis Jansz

 

[ricktate]

La scalas and Belles do sound different if you got them next to each other. I would go with LaScalas. Are you buying new ones??? Can you get discount on new ones?? You could probably get 3 Forte III across the front easier and save loads of money. 

Finding 3 Belles??? Good luck with that you will have to buy 4 used ones to get that. Same goes for used LaScalas probably. 

You could go to   ttps://www.paducahhometheater.com/heater         he has all those to listen to except Bells although if your not going to order from him probably not good idea. You could go to FB Klipsch page see if anyone close to you has those models.

Another idea would be 3 Cornwalls across the not not as big. 

You never said how big the room is going to be so thats a deciding factor also.