ignorance_is_not_bliss Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 I hate asking this question, knowing what kind of fire this could really start in here, but... If I am running speaker wire through walls, and such, whats the difference if I pay 15 bucks for a 50' spool of 16 gauge (shielded) speaker wire from walmart, versus going to a home electronics store, and paying AT least double that for the same thing? IS there really that much of a difference in sound quality/loss using wire found in the automotive section of walmart, versus spending gobs of money for something thats going into one wall, and out to a speaker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 IMO, there is no need to pay double for the marketing. You can compare the spec yourself. Apples to Apples... you pick the price you prefer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 ---------------- On 1/5/2005 12:01:52 AM ignorance_is_not_bliss wrote: I hate asking this question, knowing what kind of fire this could really start in here, but... If I am running speaker wire through walls, and such, whats the difference if I pay 15 bucks for a 50' spool of 16 gauge (shielded) speaker wire from walmart, versus going to a home electronics store, and paying AT least double that for the same thing? IS there really that much of a difference in sound quality/loss using wire found in the automotive section of walmart, versus spending gobs of money for something thats going into one wall, and out to a speaker? ---------------- You mention fire. One thing about cables in wall cavities. Electrical Code Specifications. Usually 2 things are important: Cable must be rated for in wall use, In Code, cabes should be run by a professional, then the work is inspected. People may agree or disagree. I am only summing. As far as the cables you mention, go for a heavier Gauge. Audiophile cables are usuall 999.9 % oxygen free. They also ofeer better jackets. But to me it's the gauge versus the length of the run. dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Sonically no real difference, but wire that is designed for in-wall usage has a fire retardant jacket and is rated cl3 ft4. You wouldn't want to install a wire that is not up to code, or one that would compromise the fire retardancy of a wall system. Note this is why we use fire stops and gypsum board. Remember the tragedy in a downstairs nightclub in rhode island burnt, and 99 people lost their lives? The owners of the club had purchased polyurethane foam to soundproof the building, knowing full well that what they purchased was NOT fire retardent and NOT approved for that usage. The band Great White was also partly to blame, as they had not notified the club owners about using pyrotechnics. If you use a wire with a jacket that is NOT fire retardent, and a fire breaks out in your wall system, it will spread like wildfire throughout the studding. I am not trying to scare you, but for the few pennies more a foot, please install a wire that is approved. If you are against paying full retail and then some, check out the offerings from Parts Express, (www.partsexpress.com). They carry their own brand Dayton, and also Monster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Hell, that ended up being a good question! Thanks for the info Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 It is always better to ask than assume! http://www.rockandmetal.com/greatwhitefire.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktate Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 I think parts express has speaker cable in 12GA for inside walls.I would use atleast 12GA. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 There are some good tips in this thread. Some things I never thought about for in wall wiring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 hello im confused a little by some of the replys, is there a current running thru speaker wires that can cause a short there by starting a fire, i have never been shocked by speaker wires, dont understand how they can start a fire , or are you saying if a fire starts through some other means a pair of 12 ga. wires will cause the fire to get worse, i know there is a code for electrical conductive wires running thru a home but i know of no such code requirements for speaker wires, i am in the construction business and i see speaker wires run thru alot of new homes for in wall speaker systems(in ceiling also), but i dont see special wire being used, i personally have installed in ceiling speaker systems without the use of special wireing, just wandering Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrock Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 I believe the concern is not one of the speaker wires actually causing a fire, but being used as a conduit for a fire. A fire could follow the path of the cable run if the wire jacket is not flame resistant. The fire path would be through any holes that are needed for the cable run with the burning wire jacket feeding the fire along the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Mrock is correct in his analagy, that the wire insulation can become a conduit for fire. Anything that is put in a wall or plenum should have the same rating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 There is some confusion in this thread concerning "fireproof" jackets and inwall speaker cables in general. 1. Most residential codes do not require that wires in walls be in conduit.(New York City is exception I do believe.) 2. Standard PVC jacketed cable is fine for inwall use. 3. "Plenum" cable is designed NOT to emit toxic fumes when it burns. It will burn, but the fumes coming off of it are not fatal. All cables in commercial buildings that are put into an airspace that is used for a cold air return (hence plenum) need to be plenum rated. This code is a result from a hotel fire in Atlanta in the 1930's in which many people died from breathing toxic fumes from burning wire insulation and not from the fire itself. 4. "Shielded" cable should NOT be used for speaker cables. The overall shielding can actually act like an antenna and increase the possibility of RF interference. Standard inwall speaker cable is a twisted pair configuration and rejects interference by it's design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 For longer runs of speaker cable, I recommend 12 awg cable. Many Klipsch speakers have minimum impedances below 4 ohms. The 12 awg cable can improve performance on longer runs. Zip cord was good enough for PWK, so I use 12 awg zip cord to run to my surrounds. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 I have spent some time investigating the subject, but I do not have access to sections of the NEC regarding low voltage cabling. Plenum cable is, as russ said designed not to emit toxic fumes, and is required to pass a smoke opacity test. Shielded cable should not be used, and twisted pair rejects rf. CL3 is class 3 wiring, CL3P is class 3, plenum. There is also a CL3R for riser installation. Maybe an electrician that deals with low voltage all the time can clear this up for sure. http://ulstandardsinfonet.ul.com/scopes/0013.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Just to clarify, I have included links to two products, one of which is CL3 rated, and the other is not. http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=100-762 http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=100-145 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaffstone Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Watts(W) = Volts (V) X Current (I) V = I X resistance ® Therefore W = I*I*R At 100W and 4 ohms resistance (impediance) I = 5 amps, V = 20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Actually, I use voltage squared divided by impedance= wattage, so therefore 100 x 4 = 400, sq rt is 20. This is another way of arriving at the same conclusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Michael's right. See www.partsexpress.com, part # 109-648 16Ga, 4-conductor, CL-3 rated, in wall, Monster brand cable, $49.95 for 150' spool. This is in the sale flyer that I just got today. Rick PS: I'm a dummy, I can't hyper-link. I try, I fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignorance_is_not_bliss Posted January 6, 2005 Author Share Posted January 6, 2005 ---------------- On 1/5/2005 1:43:00 PM yaffstone wrote: Watts(W) = Volts (V) X Current (I) V = I X resistance ® Therefore W = I*I*R At 100W and 4 ohms resistance (impediance) I = 5 amps, V = 20. ---------------- okay, now we've gone from english to math!?! what in Zeuses name are we talking about here? I understand about the fire retardant coating of the wire inside a wall, but completely LOST when yall start talking about math as it relates to possibilities of a fire, due to faulty wiring on my behalf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 Nobody is worried about faulty wiring, just that the fact is that putting 100 watts to a 4 ohm speaker, incurrs 5 amps in the speaker wire. 200 watts would net roughly 7 amps of current flow at 28.28 volts. As you can see, there is little potential for harm from the low voltage and amperage that is through your speaker wire, from your amplifier to the speaker. The longer the speaker wire run, the larger the wire you need to avoid loss. For an 8 ohm speaker, a run of 60 feet or less, 16 gauge is adequate. However, you may choose to go slightly larger in gauge, as it is only pennies more a foot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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